Please Help - Ford 1910 new 770B Loader Plumbing Issues

[rScotty]

I have a great little 1910 that lacked a loader when I bought it. I found a loader from a machine (also a 1910) at Weaver's and am having trouble figuring out the plumbing.

The 1-arm loader valve (also a Ford made by Diesel kiki) has the two hoses that go to the diverter block, plus a port that is marked "T", which I assume means back to the tank. There is only one place for the hard pipe that goes from this port to go, which is atop the transmission case. Most pictures of the 1910 with this loader show the pipe connecting on the starboard side, just aft of the split point.

I checked the machined surface of the transmission for signs that there was a knock-out plug, but found none. It can't be that every 1910 that wanted a loader required a dealer to drill and tap a special hole for the hard pipe from the T port of the loader valve, right? The hard pipe has a drilled bolt and two o-rings (top and bottom) in it. My 1910 is a 1984 model (2266).

What am I missing? Really want to install this loader, but need help to do it right.

Thanks in advance,

jim

Jim, lets back up a little bit. I read your original post as saying that you had found one of the vintage Ford 1-arm Loaders (model 711 or 722 probably) and want to adapt that loader to your Ford 1910. I didn't know that was possible to adapt a loader for the Ford 601 to the Ford 1910.... their frames are very different. Although anything can be done. So I guess you could do that. Keep in mind that those old loaders had a gravity drop bucket rather than a hydraulically-controlled bucket. So their loader control valve is different.
Take a look at:
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/buying-pricing-comparisons/58890-ford-601-series-2.html

Frankly I'd prefer to go with a more modern type of loader. Those old ones were mainly for cleaning stalls & feeding hay.
But that's why I was asking for some more photos. So we could see just what you have.

rScotty

 

[fourbrads]

Sorry, rScotty, I mis-typed...

When I said "1-arm loader valve," I meant to say "1-lever loader valve." My loader is a standard 770B loader (hence the title) that was made to go on this tractor.

I apologize for the confusion.

 

[rScotty]

Sorry, rScotty, I mis-typed...

When I said "1-arm loader valve," I meant to say "1-lever loader valve." My loader is a standard 770B loader (hence the title) that was made to go on this tractor.

I apologize for the confusion.

OK. That will help us get on the right track.

It doesn't matter if the loader valve is 1-lever or two lever. That's just internal geometry. It's still has to work just like a two-spool control valve with two levers - and should have the same number of ports doing the same things.

So I'm thinking your loader is the modern type. That makes it much easier, as all of those loaders made to fit the 15 to 35 hp Japanese 4wd diesels of that era were basically the same. They were open center of similar capacity. They all used a normal two-spool control valve - some with float and power beyond. The relief valve is built into the spool. They all pulled their oil through a suction filter from a common sump usually shared with a manual transmission. And they dumped unused flow continuously back into that sump (tank). Inside the transmission all those size tractors use essentially the same type seals, shaft confiuration, bearing philosophy, pump style, and drink the same trans/hydraulic fluid. Even the hose threads are common.

The more sophisticated 30+hp models sometimes had an automatic hydraulic diverter block to assure that the power steering is always positive pressure. All the rest of the flow is accessed from port at the diverter and available to the loader.
You can buy spool valves and parts through any hydraulic outlet. Surplus hydraulics from surpluscenter.com is typical.

Note that the biggest problem with this style of used loader with used hydraulic control valve is when Power Beyond is involved. Although there is a Power Beyond port on many of the standard valves, it was rarely used. To use it requires removing the PB cap and replacing an internal sleeve. These sleeves are specific to each brand of loader control valve and were often lost. Basically without the sleeve the PB port does nothing and is simply capped. With the internal sleeve installed, the PB port is active and plumbing must allow for it to flow at full pressure.

BTW, if you don't want a soft hose for a return line you can certainly plumb in a hard line. It's not difficult. Also un-necessary. There is no pressure there.
What's next?

rScotty

 

[fourbrads]

I don't think I have a power beyond port. Just the P, N and T ports. Both P and N have to run to the diverter block, if I understand this correctly.

So, I guess the only thing left to do is decide if I want to plumb the Tank port back to the hole where the hose that runs down from the power steering box is located (under the dash), or back to the side cover of the lift section under the seat. That will probably depend on whether I'll damage the power steering box by Tee-ing into that hose.

Also have to figure out what size and thread pitch/count that Tank outlet is.

You mentioned using a hose one size larger. Is that a rule of thumb for return lines not under pressure?

-Jim

 

[rScotty]

I don't think I have a power beyond port. Just the P, N and T ports. Both P and N have to run to the diverter block, if I understand this correctly.

So, I guess the only thing left to do is decide if I want to plumb the Tank port back to the hole where the hose that runs down from the power steering box is located (under the dash), or back to the side cover of the lift section under the seat. That will probably depend on whether I'll damage the power steering box by Tee-ing into that hose.

Also have to figure out what size and thread pitch/count that Tank outlet is.

You mentioned using a hose one size larger. Is that a rule of thumb for return lines not under pressure?

-Jim

If the tank outlet is a fitting that has tapered threads cut into the tank body or cover.... then it is probably BSPT (British Standard Pipe, Tapered). This is the common hydraulic tapered thread form for cast or cover parts on Japansese cars and tractors. It is almost - but not quite - the same as our normal American NPT thread.

Then you have to decide whether to stay with BSPT or switch over to US type NPT.
However, the BSPT to NPT male to female adapter is so commonly used that you can buy it in bronze at Ace Hardware.

Yes, next larger diameter is simply a rule of thumb for return lines. You can't realistically make the return line large enough to handle every crazy move the loader might make .... like suddenly dumping a load of wet sand. That will put some back pressure on the system momentarily but normally won't hurt anything.

There are probably already some good places back there to return directly to the tank sump. How about where you put new hydrulic fluid in? Could you use that orfice?
rScotty