Tractors and wood! Show your pics

[John_Mc]

Tractor Supply bar oil is regularly just over $6 per gallon and when it's on sale, it's 2 for $9.99. That's what I use, I tried used oil and didn't like the way it worked. The used oil goes into the wood stove now, a little at a time.

Better prices than what we see out here. TSC regularly sells for about $8/gallon. I haven't checked their sale prices in years, since I just don't get up their way very often, but I know it does go on sale from time to time.

I'm required to use the veggie-based bar and chain oil on one of the properties where I regularly cut, so I just ended up using it all the time. (and yeah, it's not cheap...) I tried canola oil at one point. It seems to lubricate well, but if you leave your saw sitting unused for too long, it seems to crust up on the chain, making it really stiff (a couple of times it took a few shots of WD40 on the chain to free it up). The early commercially sold veggie bar oil had the same problem, but more recently I've not had any issues.

 

[Skeans1]

I've been letting most of these comments go, willing to chalk it up to different trees/different terrain call for different techniques. However "how far behind the East Coast is on practices as well as safety"? Around here, you'd get shut down or losing your insurance for using a sizwheel or some of the other techniques you are advocating, since they require you to remain at the stump as the tree starts to fall. (The sponsor of GOL training in Maine is Maine Employers Mutual Insurance Company - MEMIC. Why would an insurance company be pushing a technique that is unsafe? That would just be costing them big time in claims.)

And you don't like GOL techniques. I get it. You've got different situations and you've learned and used practices over the years that fit those situations. You need to adapt your techniques to the situation at hand. If you understand the "why" of what you are doing as well as the "how" of the technique (as you certainly seem to) you are better prepared to adapt that technique to unique situations. I'm not one of those GOL fan-boys who think it's the only safe way to fell a tree. However, it is successfully taught to people who have never operated a chainsaw before. There are good reasons for that, as well as good reasons why insurance companies push the technique and give discounts to even very experienced operators who go through the GOL training. It works well, it works well on the trees we have around here. I can't comment on its effectiveness for the type of logging you do out in the PNW, but since I'm not cutting out there, I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it.

The sizwheel and Dutchman are something I don’t use very often are they legal no, but there’s places you need to use something like this. I can setup a wheel or a Dutchman and leave the stump since they are a bypass style cut, a wheel you pick a root to pull the tree around from the lean. The scratch faces of GOL is a good way to get killed hardwood or softwoods then boring back cut how much more energy is expended by pushing the bar in the back well trying to make sure you don’t clip the hinge? A ton if you put a Coos bay or triangle style back cut it will take care of the chair factor. Just a little after thought when boring and back strapping when releasing the strap how much pint up energy are you releasing when you’re there at the stump when popping that strap? I can do most any other back cut and get off the stump before the tree is leaving, now there’s time you need to stay on the stump to cut something up which can only done if you’re not back boring.

 

[Skeans1]

I am with Skeans on this one. Square ground chains just cut faster than round ground, just as round-ground full chisel cuts faster than round ground semi-chisel. I don't have a whole lot of experience with square ground chains, but I have used them from time to time on a friend's saw. Some pro loggers here in the Northeast do use them. I've not made the switch myself because I find it much easier to sharpen round ground chains than square ground. AS I understand it, square ground chains are VERY sensitive to using the proper sharpening technique, getting all your angles just right, etc. Maybe Skeans or other who regularly use them can comment on this. I'm also curious if square ground holds up as well over time, particularly in hardwoods or dirty wood. My impression is that it's maybe slightly less durable than full chisel in dirty wood situations (though not as big a step as the difference between semi-chisel and full chisel in dirty wood).

Since I'm not doing this for a living, the slight advantage I would gain from going to square ground chain hasn't been enough to make me switch to it. I mostly hand-sharpen in the field. I enjoy the break that stopping to sharpen a chain forces on me. That's usually when I notice that I'm getting thirsty/hungry/tired and need to address those issues before continuing. (I have a bad habit of getting caught up in my work and forgetting to eat and drink, but I will notice a chain starting to lose its edge right away.)

In hardwood square holds up fine, dirt it hates. When production cutting I don’t file anything everything is ground in the evening my thinking is I’m paid by the thousand board foot Scribner scale so we swap chains every so often. When sharpening square the biggest thing is the outside corner is lined up that’s your strength of the tooth, with the inner corner controlling how aggressive/blunt the cutter is.

 

[John_Mc]

I've never heard of that GOL techniques before but I am at best an advanced homeowner/landowner at all this stuff. So I googled it. Looks very good and wish I could have taken that kind of training some 20 years ago or so!! Copied a link for others that might not of heard of it either.

Courses - Game of Logging Chain Saw Safety Training - Level 1

You happened to link to the training organization who does it in my area. They are really good at what they do. I appreciate the fact that they take the time to go into detail on why they are doing what they recommend (particularly when applying the techniques in more challenging situations). When you understand the reasoning behind it, it's easier to figure out how to adapt it to different problems. In the classes I took, we had folks ranging from backyard firewood cutters to pro loggers with 20+ years of experience. One experienced pro in my GOL 3 class said that he only took the first course because his insurance company recognized it as safety training. He ended up intrigued and continued on. When I ran into him in GOL 3, he said it had changed the way he worked in the woods.

There are a few other GOL training organizations around. You can find them at Game of Logging. There are also others who teach the same techniques. Tim Ard of Forest Applications Training is based in Georgia, but travels all over. I have no personal experience with him, nor do I know anyone who has done his training. I just know that he worked with Soren Eriksson, the founder of GOL in the early days of the Game of Logging program.

 

[John_Mc]

The scratch faces of GOL is a good way to get killed hardwood or softwoods

The insurance companies would disagree with you. And it's not a "scratch face": GOL recommends cutting as deep as needed to get a hinge length that is at least 80% as long as the tree's DBH. (24" DBH means I'm looking for a 19 or 20" long hinge.) That's plenty to steer a tree. The real point behind the open face isn't so much getting a shallow depth, it's getting the appropriate depth (which is really getting the appropriate length of the hinge), and making a nothch that will allow the tree to remain connected to the stump all (or almost all) the way to the ground - maintaining that steering throughout the fall. In our hardwoods, which grow to the light (rather than straight up, growing against gravity as softwoods tend to do) there is almost always some lean. Just a couple degrees of lean is enough to more than outweigh what cutting a deeper notch will do to "encourage" a tree to go in the direction of the notch. A few degrees of lean puts the center of gravity of the tree outside the stump altogether, so cutting a deeper notch is just a waste of time once you have enough hinge length to steer the tree.

then boring back cut how much more energy is expended by pushing the bar in the back well trying to make sure you don’t clip the hinge? A ton if you put a Coos bay or triangle style back cut it will take care of the chair factor.

I don't find it take me any more energy to bore cut than to do a Coos bay or triangle cut. With the latter cuts, on a forward leaning tree you are still "chasing the fall" with your cut, you have just reduced the amount time it takes to do so. As far as "trying to make sure I don't clip the hinge"? It's a non issue. After learning the technique in GOL 1, I practiced it for a day or two, and have not had an issue with it. It's second nature now. It takes me a lot more attention and focus to do a sizwheel or dutchman.

I really didn't intend to get in a pissing match over felling techniques. Do what works for you on your trees. I'll do what works for me on mine. For me, a good bit of the time, that's the GOL techniques. It's clear you don't like it. Fine. Don't use it. But the claims that it is unsafe (or less safe than other techniqes like Coos Bay or triangle cuts) are simply untrue.

 

[John_Mc]

In hardwood square holds up fine, dirt it hates. When production cutting I don’t file anything everything is ground in the evening my thinking is I’m paid by the thousand board foot Scribner scale so we swap chains every so often. When sharpening square the biggest thing is the outside corner is lined up that’s your strength of the tooth, with the inner corner controlling how aggressive/blunt the cutter is.

Is all square sharpening done on a grinder, or do folks sometimes hand sharpen? My eyesight is getting poor enough that I can't see to verify the alignment very well, unless I have my reading glasses with me. Using a guide when hand-filing on takes care of most of that alignment for me when using using a round file (I still have not gotten used to carrying my glasses with me everywhere.) I've not seen a guide for hand-filing with a square file. Do they even exist?

I hear you on carrying extra loops and swapping them out. I carry spares, but generally end up not swapping them unless I hit a rock. Of course, a 16" bar will handle most of what I'm cutting (though sometimes I'll need to come in from both sides), so sharpening that chain is a lot less time consuming than sharpening one of yours.

As mentioned before, I'm not on the clock. I cut for myself and some friends (some firewood, some saw logs), as well as for a local firewood donation program, and help our community clean up from storm damage. So I enjoy the break that hand sharpening gives me. It's a time to reassess how I'm doing and think about what's coming next.

 

[Skeans1]

The insurance companies would disagree with you. And it's not a "scratch face": GOL recommends cutting as deep as needed to get a hinge length that is at least 80% as long as the tree's DBH. That's plenty to steer a tree. The real point behind the open face isn't so much getting a shallow depth, it's getting the appropriate depth (which is really getting the appropriate length of the hinge), and making a nothch that will allow the tree to remain connected to the stump all (or almost all) the way to the ground - maintaining that steering throughout the fall. In our hardwoods, which grow to the light (rather than straight up, growing against gravity as softwoods tend to do) there is almost always some lean. Just a couple degrees of lean is enough to more than outweigh what cutting a deeper notch will do to "encourage" a tree to go in the direction of the notch. A few degrees of lean puts the center of gravity of the tree outside the stump altogether, so cutting a deeper notch is just a waste of time once you have enough hinge length to steer the tree.



I don't find it take me any more energy to bore cut than to do a Coos bay or triangle cut. With the latter cuts, on a forward leaning tree you are still "chasing the fall" with your cut, you have just reduced the amount time it takes to do so. As far as "trying to make sure I don't clip the hinge"? It's a non issue. After learning the technique in GOL 1, I practiced it for a day or two, and have not had an issue with it. It's second nature now. It takes me a lot more attention and focus to do a sizwheel or dutchman.

I really don't intend to get in a pissing match over felling techniques. Do what works for you on your trees. I'll do what works for me on mine. A good bit of the time, that's the GOL techniques. It's clear you don't like it. Fine. Don't use it. Just don't make unsubstantiated claims about the safety of the technique.

If you want some good training look up the BC fallers safety videos it’s pretty much everything I do on the daily when I do fall timber. The open style face I’ve never cared for having something still attached to a stump if there’s any built energy anywhere you’re right in the line of fire when taking your butt cut. Try a block face it does the exact same thing minus hanging on to the stump afterwards.

This red alder it never goes straight up and if you look at it wrong it chairs, it’s a very soft hardwood I’ve seen guys back bore these and have them chair.

Now to face depth a 1/3 to 1/2 deep in face will affect how a tree wedges you’re changing the fulcrum point by going deeper. There’s some industrial forestry companies that have banned the GOL style of cutting now after they have seen more deaths back there vs the NW our biggest death rate would be in the rigging.

 

[Skeans1]

Is all square sharpening done on a grinder, or do folks sometimes hand sharpen? My eyesight is getting poor enough that I can't see to verify the alignment very well, unless I have my reading glasses with me. Using a guide when hand-filing on takes care of most of that alignment for me when using using a round file (I still have not gotten used to carrying my glasses with me everywhere.) I've not seen a guide for hand-filing with a square file. Do they even exist?

I hear you on carrying extra loops and swapping them out. I carry spares, but generally end up not swapping them unless I hit a rock. Of course, a 16" bar will handle most of what I'm cutting (though sometimes I'll need to come in from both sides), so sharpening that chain is a lot less time consuming than sharpening one of yours.

As mentioned before, I'm not on the clock. I cut for myself and some friends (some firewood, some saw logs), as well as for a local firewood donation program, and help our community clean up from storm damage. So I enjoy the break that hand sharpening gives me. It's a time to reassess how I'm doing and think about what's coming next.

There use to be some guides available but I’ve never used them I can file it if I’m really in a pinch but it’s not worth it, one thing you’ll notice real fast is how different you file tooth to tooth with square it’ll pull all over. The time it takes most to hand file a chain I can grind one the grinder you know you’re right side to side it’s smoother as long as you have the right wheel and you’re not burning the tooth bad or loading up the wheel.

Just an idea of the amount of time it takes I’ll do 6 to 8 square chains plus the depth gauges on the weekend it’ll take an hour that’ll include setting the saw up most of these are 105 driver or 32” bars or 115 driver chains for 36’s. Now a 94 driver 404 19hx harvester I’ll about 10 or 12 an hour if I’m not fixing the chain that’ll include the depth gauges as well everything I do is on the grinders.

 

[Oldpath05]

Yes, I use the primer bulb, it works just fine.

The 562xp will blow my 550xp right away, as it should...

I just like chainsaws, I have way more saws than I need, but I don't drink, smoke or do drugs, so I have to pizz my money away some place... lol

SR

My son has two Stihl saws, his 4 year old MS 441 has sat 3 months this past winter til a couple weeks ago, he said he went to use it and ONE pull started right up, no primer bulb, no $20.00/gal gas just a good starting saw, his new MS 261 also starts good. The only thing I like about my new 550xp is the flip caps, they are better than Stihl flip caps providing they last longer, but is it a big selling point............

For anyone who's cuts 5+ cord/year, my to many chainsaw number is 12, therefore you might need just one or two more saws.

 

[Oldpath05]

How come - you all done already ? It was a great week to work on firewood. Most days it was snowing with a stiff wind out of the NW. Not a bug around. You needed your winter woolies though.

Pretty solid looking bunks alright. Look good.

gg

Well since all the firewood cleaning agent is now gone and replaced with mud, firewood gets to dirty, but when I get my car pressure washer building built to wash my firewood I'll keep cutting although it is getting close to bug season and I differently wont cut wood then. I still remember back in the day chainsaw oil was also used on helmets in spring time............