Tier 4 Emissions delete

[YakimaJack]

I have a 2014 LS 4046 (first year of the tier 4 emissions) and we have had nothing but problems with it. First off the Emissions regen/burn kicks on and takes no less than 20 mins to complete its regen/burn cycle during which it uses lots of fuel. When new it kicked on periodically...now (5+yrs later) it kicks on much more frequently (and its never at a convenient time). Oh and if you try to continue to using the tractor it has reduced HP. Additionally it has had to go in to have the ECU replaced and twice for DPF/CAT injector failures. I spoke to my LS dealer about my frustration and he said that the first year of Tier 4 are problematic.. but that its the same engine as the Tier 3 and the Tier 3's are as reliable as rain and the new systems are good as well as they don't use the DPF/CAT burn system anymore opting instead for a DEF injection instead, so sorry. His advice; "you just need to avoid using it at low RPMs...which we do now (with marginal improvement in burn cycles) and seems counter intuitive to the purpose of the emissions controls purpose as you are now just burning even more fuel, wish I'd known all this before I bought a 2014...
Anyway I happened to speak to the chief mechanic and he said that the tier 4 emissions system could be 'deleted'...but he could not/would not do it. Is there anybody whom has done this or has any information or details as to what / how to go about bypassing and or deleting our tractors emissions BS.
Frustrated in Spokane

 

[LouNY]

I don't have an LS but if I was looking to delete one I would look at the DPF and look for any sensors on it and Identify them.
Could have pressure on each end of the dpf and or temperature sensors.
Depending on if the sensors are in the dpf or the piping before and after would factor into what to do then.
If they are in the actual dpf then after carefully removing them and identifing the threads they are using,
fabricate a pipe that would allow them to be reinstalled in that pipe and install that pipe in place of the dpf and run her and see what happens.

 

[jaydee325]

I have a 2014 LS 4046 (first year of the tier 4 emissions) and we have had nothing but problems with it. First off the Emissions regen/burn kicks on and takes no less than 20 mins to complete its regen/burn cycle during which it uses lots of fuel. When new it kicked on periodically...now (5+yrs later) it kicks on much more frequently (and its never at a convenient time). Oh and if you try to continue to using the tractor it has reduced HP. Additionally it has had to go in to have the ECU replaced and twice for DPF/CAT injector failures. I spoke to my LS dealer about my frustration and he said that the first year of Tier 4 are problematic.. but that its the same engine as the Tier 3 and the Tier 3's are as reliable as rain and the new systems are good as well as they don't use the DPF/CAT burn system anymore opting instead for a DEF injection instead, so sorry. His advice; "you just need to avoid using it at low RPMs...which we do now (with marginal improvement in burn cycles) and seems counter intuitive to the purpose of the emissions controls purpose as you are now just burning even more fuel, wish I'd known all this before I bought a 2014...
Anyway I happened to speak to the chief mechanic and he said that the tier 4 emissions system could be 'deleted'...but he could not/would not do it. Is there anybody whom has done this or has any information or details as to what / how to go about bypassing and or deleting our tractors emissions BS.
Frustrated in Spokane

You need to find a different dealer. There never were any Tier 3 engines in the less than 75 Hp category. Since he does not know that, what else does he not know?

Several on here with same vintage tractors with DPF and getting along fine.

 

[Avenger]

I know the dealer you are referring to.

As of yet, I am not aware of anyone successfully deleting the emissions on your tractor or mine. Most of the problems I have heard of, are with the ECU. There just is not a work around that has been released for our tractors... yet. And may never will be. The really big boys, like Deere, people can crack the 'code' and 'hack' their computers because there is more $ in that. Our little LS brand tractors are just too small potatoes for these "hackers" to bother with.

I think the mechanic told you the same thing to me when I asked. Mine is still under warranty, but will come off at some point. I am guessing he says "there are deletes but I'm not gonna do it" just to appease you. He is a good guy, very smart and talented. Finding a dealer with the computer software to attempt to do what you want, is probably not going to happen.

 

[5030]

No dealer will. It's a Federal crime to do it. I see the EPA is coming down hard on the pickup truck tuners that crank them up and delete the emission hardware and software. Big fines, big enough to put them out of business. Your dealer or any dealer isn't about to dance that dance.

 

[5030]

Glad mine are all pre 4 but if I had one, I'd just live with it. Price of progress I guess.

 

[ptsg]

What does exactly the ECU run on the XR4046? According to TractorData, it uses a mechanically injected Shibaura engine, so technically it shouldn't need an ECU to run.

 

[5030]

What does exactly the ECU run on the XR4046? According to TractorData, it uses a mechanically injected Shibaura engine, so technically it shouldn't need an ECU to run.

Sounds like some Oriental dish that guarantees heartburn.

 

[LouNY]

I am amazed at the number of people that are afraid to modify something on a tractor,
I would have assumed incorrectly I guess that most readers and user would have had a bit of hot rodder,
or tuner and be willing to experiment a bit especially on something that was giving them problems.
Seems like many might as well just lease and have the dealer do every thing instead of buying a tractor.

 

[ptsg]

Sounds like some Oriental dish that guarantees heartburn.

Instead of keeping pointing out that you have a pre tier 4 tractor that 99.9% of the time contributes absolutely nothing for the threads, you could really work on your knowledge... Or lack of.

Shibaura is a very well known Japanese manufacturer. Some of the biggest tractor manufacturers out there have been using Shibaura engines on their tractors for a long time, like New Holland and Massey Fergunson.

 

[5030]

Instead of keeping pointing out that you have a pre tier 4 tractor that 99.9% of the time contributes absolutely nothing for the threads, you could really work on your knowledge... Or lack of.

Shibaura is a very well known Japanese manufacturer. Some of the biggest tractor manufacturers out there have been using Shibaura engines on their tractors for a long time, like New Holland and Massey Fergunson.

Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? :thumbdown:

 

[5030]

I am amazed at the number of people that are afraid to modify something on a tractor,
I would have assumed incorrectly I guess that most readers and user would have had a bit of hot rodder,
or tuner and be willing to experiment a bit especially on something that was giving them problems.
Seems like many might as well just lease and have the dealer do every thing instead of buying a tractor.

Sounds like a John Deer potential leasee...

Most of the T4 hardware relies on a pressure differential across the SCR unit. I believe you could fab a bypass and install the sensors in that and it would 'trick' the ECM into thinking it was fully regenerated all the time because there would be no pressure differential to detect. I'm not sure if you could remove the SCR canister and do the same thing however. I bet the canisters interlock with the housings to defeat that action.

 

[Avenger]

5030 that would seem to work in theory. But, the ECU would most likely be on a schedule as well. As in my tractor: once it hits the 50hr mark since last regen, exactly 50, it regens. Deleting everything but the SCR can, would likely throw errors and either shut the tractor down or put it in indefinite limp mode.

As to not modifying tractors. I believe that if you are the one making the payments, and you know what you are doing, then go ahead. However, there is a warranty issue with some of us. Say we start tampering with the DPF and void the warranty and then, oh, I dont know, you break an axle. That repair is now not covered. So there is that. And then there is the simple fact that some, just live with it. I was seriously considering changing out the loader control valve on my tractor, screw the warranty. But as time went on, while I researched the manufacture of a better bolt in model, I decided it simply is not worth the cost and effort until something goes wrong with the one that is currently installed.

I dont think people are "afraid" to do things to their tractors that might be out of warranty. I think it is a lack of knowledge or willingness to fix something that might not a real issue. Putting new led lights on a tractor is MUCH different than deleting a major function of the tractor.

 

[5030]

5030 that would seem to work in theory. But, the ECU would most likely be on a schedule as well. As in my tractor: once it hits the 50hr mark since last regen, exactly 50, it regens. Deleting everything but the SCR can, would likely throw errors and either shut the tractor down or put it in indefinite limp mode.

As to not modifying tractors. I believe that if you are the one making the payments, and you know what you are doing, then go ahead. However, there is a warranty issue with some of us. Say we start tampering with the DPF and void the warranty and then, oh, I dont know, you break an axle. That repair is now not covered. So there is that. And then there is the simple fact that some, just live with it. I was seriously considering changing out the loader control valve on my tractor, screw the warranty. But as time went on, while I researched the manufacture of a better bolt in model, I decided it simply is not worth the cost and effort until something goes wrong with the one that is currently installed.

I dont think people are "afraid" to do things to their tractors that might be out of warranty. I think it is a lack of knowledge or willingness to fix something that might not a real issue. Putting new led lights on a tractor is MUCH different than deleting a major function of the tractor.

Probably has an electronic timer much like printers do today. Printers today have a built in timer that renders the printer inoperable after a pre determined time has elapsed. The call it the cleaning tank full but full or not the printer will default to a non operating status even if you manually change the absorber pads. However, there are workarounds and I bet there is a workaround for the electronic timer in the ECU and I bet the manufacturer knows what it is, but won't tell you. Probably the dealers as well but they aren't telling either. Kind of goes back to the 'Right to Repair' running on this forum presently concerning John Deere.

My good friend down the road has a multi-million dollar commercial seed operation and a fleet of JD's, most are only a year or two old and they are so computerized and have so many sensors on them, you cannot even change the oil and filters and use a generic filter and oil because the filters themselves have sensors in them so you have to use JD filters and JD oils, because the sensors sense the oil flow and restriction and are programmed for JD oils. Some really wild stuff. Talk about emissions compliant, they have huge black metal boxes in the side with the exhaust stack coming out. He told me that black box cost 30 grand to replace.

Amazing what the government has done to the diesel engine in the name of pollution.

I can actually see gas engines making a comeback in tractors, especially the big ones.

One thing to keep in mind when doing any modification to the emissions end and that it, if you do something that cannot be refitted back to original equipment, you are basically stuck with it forever, because it has no trade in or resale value and if you do trade it or sell it knowing that it's non compliant, the next owner can come back on you legally and you have to make them whole.

That could become a sticky situation financially and legally.

Whatever you do, keep the OEM parts and expect to refit it back to OEM configurations if you decide down the road to trade it or sell it.

I tease about having no T4 final tractors but in reality I don't want any. Don't want the hassle or the electronics. Like my friend down the road with the JD's always tells me, just keep what you have and rebuild it if necessary and that is exactly what I do. My newest tractor is a 2004.

I understand your pain and believe me, I'd like to have a new unit or two, just not with the grief associated with them.

 

[kingrace78]

Hi, I have a 2014 4046 which I have owned since new. I had a problem with the DPF at around 200 hours. I took it to my dealer and it had bad igniters and sensors. He looked at the whole system and found the return line was pinched and would not let the fuel return to the tank which caused the system to not work properly. He moved the fuel tank forward about 1.5 inches which allowed the return fuel line to go straight into the tank and kept the line from being pinched. I have not had a problem since that modification.
My understanding is the Shibaura engine is mechanical injected and does not use an actual ECM, it has a computer but does not completely control the engine. You can delete the DPF system but it takes some overriding sensors to fool the computer.

 

[jaydee325]

My understanding is the Shibaura engine is mechanical injected and does not use an actual ECM, it has a computer but does not completely control the engine. You can delete the DPF system but it takes some overriding sensors to fool the computer.

The LS Parts Manual for the XR40xx tractors show an ECM:

Part #40285556 ECU ASSY-ISM

View attachment XR 40xx.pdf

The Electronic Control Module (ECM) while not controlling the fuel injection event such as in a common rail system, it does control the fuel injection pump to the extent it can put it into limp mode.

 

[ptsg]

The LS Parts Manual for the XR40xx tractors show an ECM:

Part #40285556 ECU ASSY-ISM

View attachment 653402

The Electronic Control Module (ECM) while not controlling the fuel injection event such as in a common rail system, it does control the fuel injection pump to the extent it can put it into limp mode.

But does it actuate externally on the pump or internally? If it's externally, it's easier to "deal" with it.

 

[fried1765]

Sounds like some Oriental dish that guarantees heartburn.

Shibuara has built many thousands of very high quality diesel engines, and I have eaten many hundreds of meals in Japan, without ever getting heartburn..

 

[PLanger]

Shibuara has built many thousands of very high quality diesel engines, and I have eaten many hundreds of meals in Japan, without ever getting heartburn..

Shibuara makes outstanding diesel engines. My last tractor had one. Wish my current tractor did as well.

 

[5030]

Shibuara has built many thousands of very high quality diesel engines, and I have eaten many hundreds of meals in Japan, without ever getting heartburn..

I'll take your word for it.