Buying Advice Buying a new SCUT or CUT and have a few queries.

[SkubaSteve]

Hey All

First post, i'll start by saying this site is a wealth of information you just cant find anywhere else and I do appreciate it all.

I live in Townsville in Quensland in Australia so Aussie prices (conversion at this date is 1 AUD buys 0.69 USD). I am in the market for a SCUT or CUT with a FEL, BH ad MMM, I have 1.5 acres so really a SCUT is all I will need. I need to dig in a ton of irrigation pipes and new septic lines. I have a 70m deco driveway that I will need to maintain with a box blade (my friend with a skid steer made it for me). I also am planning to replace the fence on the property so I would like the ability to use a post hole digger. The ground is quite hard with allot of clay. My back is not that great and am past wielding a mattock and shovel so here I am. Also something weird I noticed in Australia. John Deere, Massy's FEL don't meet requirement in Australia so the FEL are made in Australia. Only Kubota and Kioti come with factory FEL. None have the option of a Skid steer quick attach.. On any brand on any loader. Doesn't meet requirement in Aus it seems, they are all pin on buckets.

Options I have due to dealers in range.

Kubota Dealer - 10km away. Can sell me BX23S with FEL, BH and MMM for $36000. Or a B3150SU with FEL and BH for $42000. Implements are extra.
Massy Ferguson dealer - 100km away. Can sell me GC1725 with FEL, BH, and MMM for $31000. Or a MF 2605 with FEL, BH, 3 point finish mower for $45000.
Kioti dealer 100km away - Can sell me a CK3010 with FEL, BH and 3 point finish mower for $38900. The CS2610 with FEL, BH and MMM was $30000.
Bobcat Tractors 10km away - Cansel me CT1025 with FEL, BH and MMM for $31470. CT2035 with FEL, BH and 3 point finish Mower for $42980.
John Deere dealer 100km away - 1025r with FEL, BH and MMM for $39124 or the 2025R with the same for $39942.

All dealers are small and have to order in stock so I cant go in and sit on and try them out. I have seen a BX and B3150 though as there were going to customers.

Some points to consider, for any of the SCUT such as the BX, GC1725 etc will they run a box blade and have enough PTO HP and weight to run a post hole digger effectively? Should I not get a 3 point post hole digger an hire a mini loader or buy portable post hole digger instead to save on cost?
Should I not get a MMM or finish mower and get a zero Turn in the package instead?
I know the John Deere 1025R and 2025R are made in the US but where are the loader and backhoe come from?
The Massy Ferguson GC1725 is now made in Indonesia if I am correct now in an Iseki factory there? Who makes the 3rd party back hoe? CB65 I think? Is the Massy Reliable?
Kubota dealer told me the BX23 and the B3150 don't have a DPF or emissions equipment on them until the 100hp range due to the way Kubota makes there engines. Is that correct?
I see allot of positive and negative feedback on all the brands of tractor so its very hard to pick and settle on one.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks again

Steve

 

[arcadelt]

Any feedback would be appreciated.

You've asked a ton of questions, and I'm afraid I don’t have the energy to answer each in detail, even if I could. However, I live on the Monaro and went through a similar exercise late last year/early this year, and although my needs were different to yours, I can address some.

* FELs in Australia must be self-levelling, so that is why some brands just fit Australian made FELs.
* Australia doesn’t have a standard for FEL quick attachments, but the Euro-hitch and slightly heavier-duty Aussie-hitch are popular alongside John Deere's propriety Quick Attach system. Skid Steer attachments don’t seem to be that popular/available in the SCUT/CUT area.
* Of the brands you mention, I only looked in details at JD and Kioti.
* JD is the best marketed, with car-like brochures that allow you to option your package to the hilt. However, they are expensive.
* Kioti is not as well marketed, and pre-sales information is harder to come by, but adequate, especially if you find an enthusiastic dealer. However, they are much cheaper.
* the Australian small tractor market in tiny, so you will not get the range or options you often see or read about in the US.
* Tier 4 emissions are not a requirement in Australia, so you will only find that if that is what the manufacture has settled on making. Despite regulations (or lack thereof) we'll end up there eventually because the brands will eventually stop making anything else.
* No one I spoke to recommend three-point hitch mounted post hole digger. Everyone recommended a FELs mounted post hole digger. That would benefit from a quick attach system and require third function hydraulics (which thankfully look to be pretty standard here).
* While it’s an interesting rabbit hole to go down, it’s not really all that important who makes what and where it is made. The entire tractor industry aggregates up to a bunch of multi-national companies that own multiple brands and they share a lot within those corporate structures. Sometime, they even share/buy across those structures.
* Bobcat tractors are currently made by Daedong, the parent of Kioti, so they are quite similar.
* Iseki and Massey Ferguson parent is AGCO, so they have similarities.
* JD is JD.
* Kubota is Kubota.
* There are a ton of third-party implement providers, much made in China, but a fair bit made in the US and locally.

Anyway, I hope I've touched on some of what you were after. If not ask away and I'll answer what else I know. I spent six months on this, and learnt a lot along the way, most of which boiled down to better defining my requirements and then matching those with the best value for money solution.

Cheers

Harry

 

[Wagtail]

G'day Cobber and welcome to TBN from Tassie.

I can only speak to the JD product and, for the SCUTs that you mention, I'd recommend the 2025R... mostly for the tractor weight that you'd need for the box-blade. I did notice (at the last AgFest that I attended) that the FEL manufacturer had changed from OEM to, I think, "Challenger", who are an Aussie mob... JD has their own FEL quick-attach (QA) system and the Aussie manufacturer will follow that standard. Therefore, any attachments that you do get for the FEL are readily available in the JDQA configuration for the size of your FEL.

The 2025R is also a Cat1 3PH (3 Point Hitch), whereas the 1025R is a Cat1 Limited, which means that Cat1 implements will 'sort of, with difficulty and fiddling' fit.

By the sound of things, I wouldn't purchase a backhoe... instead I'd hire/rent one for the limited number of jobs that you need/want to do. Otherwise, that backhoe is going to be stored away gathering dust. With the savings of no-backhoe, I'd then recommend not purchasing the MMM... roll both of those savings into a dedicated lawn tractor; like a D120. (you can tow things, within reason, with these lawn tractors)

Due to where I live, all 'colours' of tractors are at least a 1.5hr one-way trip. Ask your neighbours, over the paddock fence and at the Pub, for their opinion of the reputation of the dealerships... that's how I settled on JD, here in Tassie.

Enjoy the site.

 

[dodge man]

I owned a Kubota BX for about 10 years and a 1 1/2 years ago I traded for a JD 2025r. Both are very solid and popular tractors in the US. The 2025r is very similar to a 1025r but on a bigger chassis and larger tires. For what is nearly the same price if you go JD get the 2025r.

Tractor Time With Tim does a series of videos between a Kubota BX and a JD 1025r. The JD is a bigger tractor and has a stronger loader but still turns tighter. They are good videos just to see what you can do with small tractors in general.

The backhoes on these are small and not that powerful compared to larger machines you can rent but if you have the time, will get the job done.

Mid mount mower vs zero turn? A topic debated a lot. I prefer a mid mount mower, I don’t want another piece of equipment to store and maintain. If you have a smooth yard without a lot of hill a zero turn is a much better and faster mower.

Post hole digger? If it’s a one time use I’d rent. Depending on soil sometime they are hard to get started, 3 point hitches have no down force and rely on gravity for downforce.

The one disappointment with my 2025r is the three point lift height. It is a limited cat1 in my opinion. For some implements it’s fine, but for my rear blade and brush hog, it’s to low. In you case it might be a problem with a box blade and post hole digger. There are somethings you can do to mitigate the problem though so I would not let it stop you from going JD.

Good luck in your search.

 

[Diggin It]

I need to dig in a ton of irrigation pipes and new septic lines.

While that can be done with a SCUT sized backhoe, it will take a lot of time. If you need it in a relatively quick time, you'll be better off renting a trencher if they're available.

Several members here with small backhoes have done similar tasks, so it CAN be done. Your soil will make a world of difference though since they don't do as well in hard, dry, compacted or rocky ground.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I own a B26 TLB Kubota and wouldn't be without it. But with only 1.5 acres, I cant recommend you buying one. I put in a sprinkler system for my yard that is about the size of your acreage and I hired a sprinkler contractor to do the whole thing. He used a trencher to put all the pipe in. If you want to do yours yourself, just rent a trencher to dig all the trenches. If your soil is really hard, go for the ride on trencher rather than the walk behind.

As for tractors that can work a boxblade, I would upgrade to small CUT rather than the SCUT sizes like the Kubota BX and others that you listed. They are similar in cost to the SCUT and have larger tires for smoother ride and more traction. Also the 3 PH is more substantial. Most models are similar in quality and comfort. I would base my buying decision on how well they fit my body rather than brand and where it is built. All are built out of country (mine and yours) and there is nothing wrong with that, although I would shy away from Chinese built ones. Korean and Japanese built one are good, I cant speak for India.

As for a mower, MMM work OK as long as you dont have any trees, shrubs or other obstacle to mow around. Personally I would get a commercial grade zero turn and skip the MMM. It will be smoother and faster than you tractor and will likely make a better cut. Around here you can get a low end commercial mower like my Ferris IS700Z for not much more than your MMM attachment, I paid $6000 USD for mine in 2013. I would not recommend the box store variety that run less than $4000 USD though (I have one of those, a Craftsman 6000ZTS) and it just wont cut it on any slope. With my Ferris, I routinely mow my pond dike side slope that is 35 degrees or more and it holds true. The Craftsman wont hold on 10 degree slope and will just drift down hill with both tires spinning to try to hold it.

 

[jjp8182]

Should I not get a MMM or finish mower and get a zero Turn in the package instead?

MMM, 3 point finish, or zero turn is the subject of much debate and personal preference. So the only thing I'll say on that is that at a certain size point the 3 point finish mower seems to become the cheaper option.

The other thing to consider is the long term projects that will need to be done and figure out the rental costs vs buying/maintaining the equipment. Depending on how deep/wide you need to make the trenching for irrigation and septic lines a trencher/ditch witch may be the faster/cheaper option (either buying or renting).

When it comes to post hole diggers I'd recommend going with something hydraulically driven unless you're absolutely sure you won't be dealing with roots, rocks or other buried objects .... the first time you get a 3 point post hole digger caught on a subterranean object you'll find yourself wishing for the ability to reverse the auger by power-driven means (not fun to dig an auger bit out by hand even in sandy loose soil). Whether it's on a dedicated plate, mounted to the side of the bucket, or on a rented machine being able to reverse the auger can save a lot of manual labor. Otherwise if it's just putting in posts it may also be worth seeing if any post drivers are available for rent/hire in the area as they can skip digging the hole (and dealing with any back filling) and go straight to driving the post into the ground.

Just my :2cents: though...

 

[rademamj1]

Subcompact tractors like JD1025R and Kubota BX can operate the smaller 3pt post hole diggers. Actually drilling holes is a bigger challenge than you may think. If you got rocky soil or 100% clay type soil, don't even try drilling with a 3pt digger. These tools jam easily and you will spend 40% of your time in auger recovery. If you have 100% sandy soil or anything up to 50% sand/50% clay you may find it works good. So think carefully about your soil conditions.

Experience and patience is required, to improve your post hole drilling success rates. My first time out, I drilled only 3 holes in 6 hours effort. Miserable day. By end of the week, I was averaging 15 holes per day with my compact CK4010 Kioti tractor. These holes were about 2.5 feet deep for setting 8 foot wood posts into concrete for fence line anchors posts spaced every 75 feet. In between these anchor posts, I used a gas power fence post driver, to drive the typical metal posts into the ground. With such a driver, you can pound most any metal fence post in about one minute per pole.

 

[SkubaSteve]

Thank you all on your advice.. I know I asked allot of questions but I figured different people would know answers to different things from there own experiences. Value for money the Massy GC1725 TLB seems to be the best priced at the moment. But I will try and do some price negotiations on the other tractors. I do like Kubota Tractors but the dealer was like (all the others are cheap Korean junk or all there parts are made in china, think that was a stab at JD? Kubota is quality with every part) and would not budge on price knowing his Kubota tractors are quoted thousands more then the rest.

 

[MoMower]

I have a MF GC1723e. MMM backhoe and FEL. It runs a 4’ box blade just fine. It runs a 3 point post holes digger just fine. The MMM gives a beautiful cut and I cut about 1.5 acres in an hour and half (a lot of obstacles)with no extra machine to maintain.

I use this machine on our farm (6 acres)and commercially. Never have been disappointed but on the commercial side I stay to appropriately sized work.

My current machine is a 2019, that replaced a 2014 GC1710, equipped the same. Gave the same service and I sold it at 600 Hrs, for the upgrades of the 1723.