Submersible well pump health?

[Egon]

I disagree! I have been teaching classes to thousands of pump installers and engineers in this country and others for almost 30 years now. I have found that 95% of the installers and engineers really don't know much about what they are doing. Pumps are counter intuitive, which really messes with engineers and installers, as they think everything in the world is intuitive. Pumps don't like to rest and running 24/7/365 is good for them. Back pressure is also good for pumps. A soft start or ramping up the speed slowly is not good for a submersible motor. These things and many others are counter intuitive, which is why pump installers and engineers with closed minds will never understand. The 5% who understand these counter intuitive principles laugh at the hard headedness of their colleges.

Even though I have studied pumps and electronics for 50 years, I still learn something new occasionally. I would never claim to know it all. However, 95% of pump installers think they know all there is to know, which is a sure indication that they do not. The 5% who are humble, quite, and are not afraid to say "I don't know but I will find out" are the intelligent ones. Don't take my word or any installer or engineers word for it. Do the research. Be careful to weed out the hype and advertisements from the facts. Read reviews, ask for references, and make up your own mind which way is best. Again, no one should care more about your water than you.

You’re definitely entitled to your opinion.

My impression is there are many competent people out there. More than we realize. Those folks probably have no need of your instructions.

The easiest solution to centrifugal pump cycling is to size or restrict the outlet flow to what the demand will be. Pump stays running till use is stopped. The water will be used till low pressure starts the pump. Then it does not have capacity to build up pressure.

Another way is to have the amperage draw control the pump output by bypass or restriction.

By the way; my pump knowledge is negligible. The basic pump design may be understood but the actual construction with thrust plates, diameter and number of stages and wideness of stages and materials is sort of murky. So is my knowledge of the control systems and how instrumentation and valuing works.

And I do have well drilling experience using the “Baptist Drilling System” Slow but one of the easiest rigs to set up and can detect low water flows a rotary rig will miss. For water wells it sure beats the Thumper.

 

[Valveman]

The easiest solution to centrifugal pump cycling is to size or restrict the outlet flow to what the demand will be. Pump stays running till use is stopped. The water will be used till low pressure starts the pump. Then it does not have capacity to build up pressure.

Lol! I agree 100% as "restricting the outlet flow to match the demand" is exactly what a Cycle Stop Valve does. However, "sizing" the pump to match the demand is not that easy. You can size the pump to match the largest demands, then it will cycle on and off when smaller flow rates are being used. The CSV lets you install as large of a pump as needed for the big demands, and makes the pump work like a smaller pump when smaller demands are being used.

The older I get the fewer competent people I find. There are way fewer out there than you would think. The ones who need help the most don't want it, as they think they already know everything.

 

[lilranch2001]

Are you guys sure you are not married??

You sure do bicker a lot!!

:laughing:

 

[Valveman]

It's not Egon's fault. Everybody wants to "bicker" with me. When you go against what everyone thinks is normal, nobody wants to hear it. I thought the same things about pumps for 20+ years myself. After I found out the major pump companies said the "CSV makes pumps last longer and use smaller tanks", it has taken me another 30 years to learn how pumps really work. Now that I know bigger tanks are not better, back pressure is good for pumps, pump companies are not always doing what is best for the homeowner, and a lot of other things that seem backwards, it seems I am constantly "bickering" with someone about it.

 

[Egon]

Outlet restriction and instrumentation take care of all.

 

[lilranch2001]

I never said it was Egons fault, just said you guys liked to bicker

 

[Valveman]

Outlet restriction and instrumentation take care of all.

Thanks! The CSV is an automatic outlet restrictor that does take care of it all. But you don't need any instrumentation when the CSV is taking care of it all. But I am always eager to learn new things, so tell me how you would make it work to "take care of all".

 

[lilranch2001]

There you go!

Moss would be proud of you, friendly banter back n forth!!

 

[Egon]

Thanks! The CSV is an automatic outlet restrictor that does take care of it all. But you don't need any instrumentation when the CSV is taking care of it all. But I am always eager to learn new things, so tell me how you would make it work to "take care of all".

To get into the instrumentation and installation required gets much too detailed for my limited knowledge. But I can say it might be based on flow rate, pressure, perhaps tank level and in some cases temperature. Different valve types may be used as well as different methods to activate the valves. If it’s electric chances are There can be a number of different voltages and current type the instrumentation is designed for.

The simplest is still outlet restriction based on trail and error that will handle regular water use. It might not be perfect but with a globe valve adjustment is easy and quick.

 

[Valveman]

The simplest is still outlet restriction based on trail and error that will handle regular water use. It might not be perfect but with a globe valve adjustment is easy and quick.

You are exactly right that outlet restriction to match the usage is simplest and best. But even simpler is to use a Cycle Stop Valve instead of a globe or ball valve. The CSV automatically adjust itself and restricts the output of the pump to match the usage. There is no trial and error and it is always perfect. It works the same as if you had someone sitting there controlling that ball valve all the time. When he sees the pressure drop a little he opens the ball valve. When he sees the pressure increase a little he closes the ball valve. The CSV just does that automatically by using a simple spring to control the pressure. With a 50 PSI spring setting the CSV will open a little when the pressure drops to 49 and close a little if it goes up to 51 to maintain 50 PSI no matter how much or how little water you are using.