Box Scraper Is this SOP in the industry?

   / Is this SOP in the industry? #41  
I, for one, would not tolerate a company charging a multi-hundred dollar purchase before shipping. If I pay for something that doesn't ship within 72 hours, I'll cancel and buy elsewhere.

A deposit or down payment for a custom item is a different matter.

The only things I recall paying for in advance recently are some orders of metal roofing. The local points of sale required payment in full before submitting the order, but I knew the orders would be manufactured and shipped within a day or two and I'd be able to pick them up within a week. I've since found another locally/family owned small business source that manufactures on site and will take a custom order by email or phone and not require payment until pickup.
 
   / Is this SOP in the industry? #42  
I can accept there are instances where the CC gets the charge immediately and others that do not until shipment my biggest complaint is that the very same companies that charge your card at the time of order do not refund your money the same way if you have returned the item. There are several places, especially some my wife has purchased from, that the refund did not show up until almost 8 weeks later but they sure did take the money the instant the order was placed. Can understand a day or two to process the refund but weeks? Needless to say they no longer get any business.
 
   / Is this SOP in the industry? #43  
It痴 called the float. Real estate lawyers do it all day, every day. Banks do it, they all try.

Sell your house. Your house closes, the money is wired at.... the speed of light... but the lawyer tells you they must hold it over nite or for a couple days in their escrow account. Sounds very official and serious.

I told my closing lawyer if the money didn稚 transfer immediately I壇 file a complaint with the bar.

Those bullies make lots of $ on the float, in the big picture.
 
   / Is this SOP in the industry? #44  
Also, wasn't you, right?

My reading comprehension is quite fine. Look in your own mirror.

Slowpoke, you might want to take remedial English. At no point in any of the stuff you quoted did I say EA was getting ready to fold or danger was imminent. I'm clearly stating my position against a PRACTICE and NOT A SPECIFIC COMPANY. ALL YOU HAD HAD TO DO WAS READ THE THREAD. I really tried to do this nicely but you apparently are as financially challenged are you are grammatically. You didn't need to come in and act like a jerk right off the bat but you decided to anyway. There are tons of people like you who think their way is the right way and anyone else is BAD so the must attack. I simply offered my experience and said the buyer has to be thinking ( Buyer Beware) and not just go along with whatever someone asks. I'm going to dumb this down as much as possible just for you...

THIS WAS NEVER ABOUT EA. IT IS ABOUT A BUSINESS PRACTICE THAT IS NOT UNCOMMON BUT NONETHELESS, DUMB FOR THE COMSUMER IF THEY THINK IT THROUGH. IT IS A PRACTICE WHICH PUTS 100% of the FINANCIAL RISK ON THE CUSTOMER AND REMOVES ALL FINANCICAL RISK FROM THE COMPANY IN THE PROCESS


Here is the bottom line. If you feel comfortable giving a company lot of money up front (paying 100%) for something that won't ship for at least six weeks, then you have somehow made enough money, even being financially challenged, that you just don't mind taking the risk or you are just bad at math. I really don't care.

You are giving a company the funding on a credit card, which has a 60 day limit to reverse charges, and then giving them the okay to sit on your money until that time is just about expired. You lose any income you could have made with that cash during that time and other opportunity costs in the process. You have also, unwisely now given yourself very little power to keep from losing money in the event something goes wrong in a significant financial purchase. When a lot of people are in the same boat at the same time, this is significant money floating for a business. It's great for the business if they can get away with it. They have taken zero risk in providing their product and have to pay zero percent on the money they are borrowing because you have just financed for them (at zero percent) the business's cost of getting and making a piece of equipment which is one of their normal "stock" items.

I'm all for getting a healthy deposit on an order and even 100% of something that is an unusual order in which you special order something for someone. But for standard stock items, this is just a bad idea for most consumers to allow this. If you allow this, then fine but for the average consumer this is a truly dumb way to protect their money.

You mentioned doing something similar with your own customers I believe. Well apparently you have found your tribe. We all know there are suckers born every minute, I just didn't know there were that many in one place before.
 
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   / Is this SOP in the industry? #45  
Also, wasn't you, right?

"As I mentioned earlier, it's great for the business, not so much for the customer. The customer is taking on all the business risk by paying 100 percent in advance for a company to build or acquire a product to send to them. It might be the "my way or the highway" business owner doesn't care because he has all the business he can stand. Good for him if that's the case. That doesn't make it smart for a customer to deal with them though.

Normally, this sort of requirement is because the business doesn't have sufficient cash flow and needs the customer to help finance acquiring the wholesale merchandise to transfer to the customer."

My reading comprehension is quite fine. Look in your own mirror.

Well, if your reading comprehension was so good you would understand the word NORMALLY implies that there are other times when this is not the case. We were discussing a business practice but you clearly did not comprehend that and apparently still don't.
 
   / Is this SOP in the industry? #46  
Ok, I get it. Someone "hacked" your account, right?
Generally when someone bills your card that far in advance, there are underlying factors to the business cash flow that necessitate it. To me its a red flag. My biggest concern would be with that kind of advance billing, you could get stuck with the charge if it didn't get delivered in time.

GENERALLY is much like NORMALLY. THEY IMPLY THERE ARE TIMES THIS IS NOT THE CASE. NO ONE WAS SAYING THIS WAS THE CASE. I gave an out of industry example below just to help make this distinction.

I build custom cars as a hobby. I have seen this happen in a several similarly sized businesses that sold motors and other high end accessories for custom cars. Both times, the companies were around a number of years and had zero problems. They did a lot of business and provided high quality merchandise. Then for one reason or another, they got into a cash flow situation they couldn't get out of. They started using current sales money to pay for orders they had already taken because they were behind in their cash flow. In just a matter of weeks, a lot of people lost a lot of money I don't think this is good business practice but if people put up with it then buyer beware. Generally when someone bills your card that far in advance, there are underlying factors to the business cash flow that necessitate it. To me its a red flag. My biggest concern would be with that kind of advance billing, you could get stuck with the charge if it didn't get delivered in time. I build custom cars as a hobby. I have seen this happen in a several similarly sized businesses that sold motors and other high end accessories for custom cars. Both times, the companies were around a number of years and had zero problems. They did a lot of business and provided high quality merchandise. Then for one reason or another, they got into a cash flow situation they couldn't get out of. They started using current sales money to pay for orders they had already taken because they were behind in their cash flow. In just a matter of weeks, a lot of people lost a lot of money because all of the sudden quit shipping anything, even though they continued to take orders. Basically overnight, they suddenly closed up and declared bankruptcy.

The one thing that made me think of it was that was that we had several Internet car forums that were larger than TractorbyNet.com and when it first started happening everyone was defending the vendors because there had been no serious issues in the past. I'd say for a good month or two, people were still defending them on the forum because the vendors were well liked. In fact, one of the vendors was a big financial supporter of the both Forums. They advertised heavily which helped pay the cost of operating both forums for a long time. Anyway, in both cases, the next thing we knew the businesses had shut down and quit returning calls and correspondence. Losses ranged from hundreds of dollars to tens of thousands.

The Fair Credit Billing Act allows you to file a dispute with your credit card company for undelivered merchandise, so long as you inform the credit card company within 60 days of the first bill that has the disputed charge on it.


So if the order drags on a couple of extra weeks you can find yourself in a situation where your time to dispute the charge has past and you are out of luck. No matter how great you think a company is doing, you really don't know. If they are charging you 30 days or more before they even ship, then you are taking all the financial risk for them and essentially financing the equipment build or acquisition for them. The one taking a risk in that situation is the consumer. If they decide one day to close up shop suddenly, you can lose your money. Been there, done that, have the T-Shirt. all of the sudden quit shipping anything, even though they continued to take orders. Basically overnight, they suddenly closed up and declared bankruptcy
.

Yes this does happen. It has happened and I gave an example of it but at no time did I say EA was in this situation. I was making the point that you can't really know what is going on with a company so you need to protect yourself. But your reading comprehension skills did not allow that understanding.

The one thing that made me think of it was that was that we had several Internet car forums that were larger than TractorbyNet.com and when it first started happening everyone was defending the vendors because there had been no serious issues in the past. I'd say for a good month or two, people were still defending them on the forum because the vendors were well liked. In fact, one of the vendors was a big financial supporter of the both Forums. They advertised heavily which helped pay the cost of operating both forums for a long time. Anyway, in both cases, the next thing we knew the businesses had shut down and quit returning calls and correspondence. Losses ranged from hundreds of dollars to tens of thousands.

The Fair Credit Billing Act allows you to file a dispute with your credit card company for undelivered merchandise, so long as you inform the credit card company within 60 days of the first bill that has the disputed charge on it.


So if the order drags on a couple of extra weeks you can find yourself in a situation where your time to dispute the charge has past and you are out of luck. No matter how great you think a company is doing, you really don't know. If they are charging you 30 days or more before they even ship, then you are taking all the financial risk for them and essentially financing the equipment build or acquisition for them. The one taking a risk in that situation is the consumer. If they decide one day to close up shop suddenly, you can lose your money. Been there, done that, have the T-Shirt.

Again, reading the whole thread would have given you the understanding we are talking about a generally business practice not a specific business. And what I said is 100% factual. I gave the above example to illustrate that. (Do you understand "Illustrate" or should I explain that too?)

This *wasn't* you?


Slowpoke, you amazing detective, it was definitely me! Glad you can copy and paste. There might be hope for you yet.

I took the liberty of using your own response to explain to you some basic concepts and even the meanings of a couple of pretty basic words . I can't wait for your next display of aggressive ignorance. You are like those folks who quote one specific Bible verse to make their case for whatever it is they want.

So while I have found you somewhat entertaining, you are now growing boring.

Adios Amigo.
(I'm sure someone here can interpret that for you)
 
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   / Is this SOP in the industry? #47  
Just called my local John Deere dealer to order chain guards for my new bushhog. Guess how much they asked me to put down? ZERO. I offered to pay 100% since it was a special order. They said "no need" and ordered it because it is a non custom item that many other people can use and will want at some point. Guess how they can do this? They business has enough cash flow to make this convenient for the customer. This $450 worth of parts isn't going to hurt them and they would rather make the sale than not. They are in the business of providing quality service, thus they act accordingly.

Now do they HAVE to do this. Of course not. But they want to provide excellent customer service and they are willing to participate in the financial risk of obtaining a commonly used stock item for their customer. I'm sure if I asked them to order a 100K tractor, they are going to want some money upfront and that is completely understandable.

This business practice must be working well for them as they own at least 10 John Deere dealerships.
 
   / Is this SOP in the industry? #48  
America...the land of choices...

This thread started back on Oct 1st with the OP wondering if payment on order was the norm, specific to concerns raised about EA.

He mentioned originally ordering from EA around August 24th. Quick skim seems that the OP may have responded only once since...

Suspect by now, more than 10 weeks later, the EA attachment should be in hand?

@Mr. CTGOLDWING, was it worth the wait and payment on order for you?

.

My own personal view:

There's real pleasure gained just from using a well designed tool - although in reality, tools are simply to leverage available time and capability...to enable accomplishing more over a period of time.

I despise every minute spent working on broken down implements - when the objective is to be using that equipment to work on the land!

Therefore, my personal preference is to purchase what I consider to be the best quality new or used implements available to maximize leverage.

Over time, I've purchased 3 new attachments from EA...~6 week delivery for each.

With 20 years of expected use - payment on order and waiting 6 weeks is really meaningless...totally satisfied with their product design and build.

.

Even ordering a meal at McDonald's is payment upon order.

It just takes a bit longer for EA to deliver a happy meal...

Easy enough to buy off the lot at Tractor Supply if one does not trust EA will survive for 6 more weeks.

Everyone has a choice - choose wisely!
 
   / Is this SOP in the industry? #49  
I can accept there are instances where the CC gets the charge immediately and others that do not until shipment my biggest complaint is that the very same companies that charge your card at the time of order do not refund your money the same way if you have returned the item. There are several places, especially some my wife has purchased from, that the refund did not show up until almost 8 weeks later but they sure did take the money the instant the order was placed. Can understand a day or two to process the refund but weeks? Needless to say they no longer get any business.

We run a multi-million dollar online business. You are correct that charge happens quickly but refunds can take time to show up. Our CC processor can take 20-30 days to process our request to refund a client. Meanwhile, our client is stewing because they do not get the refund. Other times, the processor handles the transaction in 3-5 days. We've looked at lots of payment processing companies. Apparently this is their norm.

My point: It may not be the vendor with whom you are working that is holding up the refund. They may be at the mercy of the payment processing system.

Other points not related to the quoted statement: in our business, we never process payment until the order is shipped with the exception of those who choose to pay by paypal. PayPal requires the payment to be taken at the time the customer places the order and they literally send the payment to us. As that is the case, we then attempt to fill the order same day whenever possible because we do not want to be holding people's money more than one business day before shipping the product.

Our products are tech products for the Auto Industry and they are not custom made. They are "off the shelf" items. I understand the need to take some money for "custom build to order products". If the customer walks away after the custom order has been started, the company may never sell that item and recover their costs.

It's been an interesting thread...
 
   / Is this SOP in the industry? #50  
Nothing further to add other than a LOL at Doug62 with steam coming out his ears because someone made him defend his own accusatory statements. It's just too easy to rile up some folks, haha.

EA is a good company, it's quite easy to find this out just by participating in these forums.
 
 

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