Need a reality check on a mod I want to do to my tractor's hydraulic setup.

[rbstern]

Tractor is an LS MT225E with LS backhoe.

Factory/dealer delivered config is as follows...

If backhoe mounted - quick disconnect that normally feeds the rear lift from the front hydraulic distribution block (block also feeds FEL control valve assembly) is disconnected. An extra hose that runs from the front hydraulic block area is connected to the front hydraulic block rear lift fitting. Opposite end of that hose at rear end of tractor connected to backhoe input hose. Backhoe return hose connected to quick connect on transmission body/rear axle area (I assume that's the hydraulic reservoir).

If backhoe not mounted - the extra hose that runs from the front hydraulic block is disconnected. The hose that feeds the rear lift is connected. I leave the opposite end of the extra hose connected to the transmission body/rear axle, to keep them from accumulating dirt.

This works fine, and it's not terribly inconvenient for the switchover to/from the backhoe.

However, I think I could make the setup more useful and convenient, where I have "sorta" rear remote functionality. What I want to do:

1) At the front hydraulic block, install a T so both the rear lift and the rear feed line for the backhoe remain connected all the time.
2) At the rear of the tractor, install a rear remote bracket. Output side would be fed with the hose from the front hydraulic block, but through a manual open/close valve.
3) Return side would be connected by hose to transmission housing return fitting.

Use modes:

Backhoe: Connect to rear remotes, valve open (flow circuit is through open center on backhoe).

Implements requiring rear lift: No connections to remotes, valve closed (rear lift circuit is pressurized).

Implements requiring rear lift and hydraulics (thinking open center log splitter): Use valve as necessary to direct flow to rear lift or hydraulic implement.

Obviously, it's limited to certain types of use modes, and it doesn't work for something like a tilting top link setup, but I think I'd still appreciate the ease of hookup for the backhoe, and would be motivated to add a log splitter.

I don't spend a lot of time thinking about hydraulics, so i just want to make sure my thinking on this is clear. Thanks in advance for feedback.

 

[aczlan]

I wouldn't do that.
You have 3 hoses there:
1. Hose that runs from the front hydraulic block - This is pressure input to the backhoe valve, this gets the full flow of the hydraulic pumo that is not used by the upstream valves.

2. Hose that feeds the rear lift - This is the "Power Beyond", it takes high pressure fluid not used by the upstream valve and sends it to the 3 point hitch. This is not used by the backhoe to keep you from lifting the 3 point arms while the backhoe is on and because if the 3 point arms are trying to lift the flow of fluid leaving the backhoe is blocked and it can prevent you from moving the backhoe cylinders.

3. Quick connect that the return hose connects to - This is the low pressure "tank" port that is used by the backhoe as it goes straight to the tank, no back pressure.

Your dealer should have gone over this, but:
#1 MUST ALWAYS be connected to one of the other two hoses when the engine is running or you WILL ruin your hydraulic pump in short order (you will be "deadheading" the hydraulic system)
If your loader valve is setup for it, ALL flow will go through the loader relief valve and you will overheat the pump, likely frying the seals in about 15 minutes.
If your loader valve relief doesn't work that way and your pump doesn't have another relief it will over pressure the hydraulic system and can crack the pump housing or blow out hydraulic lines in minutes.

Here is how Deere has hoses 1 and 2 run when the backhoe is not on, they have a plate that the both mount to:

You can use any standard power beyond capable valve there to run something like a woodsplitter (with only 8GPM it will be slow for a woodsplitter). Just make sure it can handle the full hydraulic flow of your tractor (8GPM) and that it is an open center power beyond valve.

Aaron Z

 

[rbstern]

Aaron, I might not have explained it very well. The mods I described don't actually change what currently takes place. Flow is either going to the lift arm mechanism, or through the backhoe and back to the reservoir. Turning the valve at the rear becomes the same action as my current hose switch at the front hydraulic block.

I could add the loop you show in your image as a safety measure, so that if the valve is in the wrong position, it won't cause any harm as the fluid will just dump into the tank.

I'm 102 hours into operating this tractor. I haven't gotten myself in trouble with the hydraulics. Yet.

 

[LD1]

IF you are gonna buy a valve to "Add" you might as well just make it a true remote with detent, and adapt the backhoe hoses to run off the rear remotes.

If I understand how it is currently plumbed....you have a hose coming off the distribution block. That hose ALWAYS has to go somewhere. IT either feeds the 3PH when the backhoe is off, or it feeds the backhoe when the backhoe is on correct?

IF thats the case, simply take that supply line and feed the P port of your new remote valve. The PB out of your new remote valve would feed the 3PH. Then you would add a 3rd line from the T port of your new valve and return it to tank. Obviously the work ports would feed the remotes.

Now you have a fully functioning set of rear remotes, with detent. You can use it for a hydraulic toplink, hydraulic angle blade, etc when the 3PH is on. When you want the backhoe, simply hook the backhoe to the rear remotes and lock it in detent.

 

[rbstern]

IF you are gonna buy a valve to "Add" you might as well just make it a true remote with detent, and adapt the backhoe hoses to run off the rear remotes.

If I understand how it is currently plumbed....you have a hose coming off the distribution block. That hose ALWAYS has to go somewhere. IT either feeds the 3PH when the backhoe is off, or it feeds the backhoe when the backhoe is on correct?

IF thats the case, simply take that supply line and feed the P port of your new remote valve. The PB out of your new remote valve would feed the 3PH. Then you would add a 3rd line from the T port of your new valve and return it to tank. Obviously the work ports would feed the remotes.

Now you have a fully functioning set of rear remotes, with detent. You can use it for a hydraulic toplink, hydraulic angle blade, etc when the 3PH is on. When you want the backhoe, simply hook the backhoe to the rear remotes and lock it in detent.

LD1, you've described it correctly.

Couple of follow up questions:

Is the detent valve you describe an open center valve?

Example application I have in mind: If I have a hydraulic log splitter attached (the type without legs / entirely supported by the 3PH), I park the tractor, set the log splitter to the height I want, set the valve to detent, and run the splitter from the remotes. Will the 3PH hold the vertical position of the splitter when the valve is in detent?

 

[Xfaxman]

----------------------------------

Example application I have in mind: If I have a hydraulic log splitter attached (the type without legs / entirely supported by the 3PH), I park the tractor, set the log splitter to the height I want, set the valve to detent, and run the splitter from the remotes. Will the 3PH hold the vertical position of the splitter when the valve is in detent?

In not a check chain will:

 

[WranglerX]

In not a check chain will:

View attachment 690227
View attachment 690228

I find using check chains solves a lot is issues with keeping implements at correct height on 3PH.... No longer depend on hydraulics.... Got really tired of dragging ballast in the dirt when "I thought" it was being held up with hydraulics...

You can either purchase or cobble something together...

Chain Limiter Kit

For Category 1 Tractors Kit contains (2) brackets, (2) chains with smaller brackets 1/4

www.stevenstractor.com

Dale

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

Not sure if you have the $$$ (about $650), but it is a fairly simple install to do true rear remotes. My BH on my 225e is plumbed with just 2 hoses to run off the remotes. One is a detent... put it in detent and the BH works. The 3 point works all the time... even if the BH is plugged in.

 

[rbstern]

Not sure if you have the $$$ (about $650), but it is a fairly simple install to do true rear remotes. My BH on my 225e is plumbed with just 2 hoses to run off the remotes. One is a detent... put it in detent and the BH works. The 3 point works all the time... even if the BH is plugged in.

I've thought about it. Definitely a possibility, and certainly so if the cost of doing my poor-man's version adds up to more than a couple hundred bucks.

 

[LD1]

The only added cost of doing a true remote is gonna be the material. The valve, couplers, and a few hoses.

You can get a detent valve in open center, that isnt a problem.

Yes the 3PH should hold the splitter fine, but if not, some check chains as mentioned.

If you are handy, and aint afraid of a little work/plumbing, you should be able to do a single remote for far less than $650.