Is a 3hp upgrade worth it?

[SirFallalot]

Hey all,

I have a Hinomoto C144 (the plaque says 17hp, but i've been told it's 14 at pto or drawbar, name suggests it too (C 14hp 4whd). It's the same as the Massey 1010. I'm considering trading it for a C174 (same as Massey 1020 *I think*).

This is mostly for tight vineyard work, with a max row width of 120-130cm and tight turns on which sometimes I scrape the transport box on posts and walls. It does this 80% fine, however it's a bit under powered as it's very hilly, I do need to increase front ballast, but the typical 100kg 3pt load makes the front quite light, and will send me from 3rd to 2nd in most uphills, same with the empty 420kg trailer, which is about half the speed. One of the typical wood gathering places has a steep ""road"", it's shaped like a U with trees on the sides, so I wasn't too worried, but loading the trailer more than half sends all 4 wheels spinnin' on the rock, and I don't really trust going up there with the box either (too long to reverse), I end up using my Samurai.

My struggle is, according to specs it's a 100cm*200cm (110 wide cause I turned the wheels, and probably a bit longer with the weights etc), and all the replacements I've found are at least 250cm long (according to tractorData), not sure if my length doesn't count the weights and the other's do or something, but the 24 wheel suggests it's much bigger (mine is 16). Half a meter is a lot, and I think it'd probably mean not being able to make some of the turns.

The 174 has an extra 100cc, 3hp, 50kg and a medium range, but is only a couple cms bigger. The one I'm looking at has 2 remotes installed too. Do you guys think it's a worthwhile upgrade?
There's a lot more choice with newer tractors going into the 20+ hp range while keeping it small, with a lot more farkles too, but not only am I an "old things guy", my budget is ~4k euros (Portugal) and I'd be afraid to scratch up a 6-10k tractor.

Here's some example pics.


Thanks for the advice.

 

[JCoastie]

Beautiful lands you have there.
Not sure about the seat of the pants feel, but when dealing with such small numbers, 17hp is 21.5% more than 14, so it may make a difference.

 

[the old grind]

We buy hp and use torque. That said, IMO just gaining a 'medium' range would win you over within a few hours in the seat. BTDT, and rear remotes could be another big plus.

 

[Egon]

I’d be hesitant to spend money for just three horse power.

consider rigging up a holder for the weights so they are farther forward giving the front wheels more traction.

 

[SirFallalot]

We buy hp and use torque. That said, IMO just gaining a 'medium' range would win you over within a few hours in the seat. BTDT, and rear remotes could be another big plus.

Indeed, currently the ratios between the gears in high range is too wide, 3rd is fine, but 2nd feels like it should be first, and first is about the same a 3rd low iirc. Sometimes it's hard to select the right one. The remotes also interest me, as I plan do get some implements that will require them, and to build some other stuff.

Beautiful lands you have there.
Not sure about the seat of the pants feel, but when dealing with such small numbers, 17hp is 21.5% more than 14, so it may make a difference.

Well thank you yes, I was thinking percentage wise, I imagine on bigger tractors the difference is negligible

I’d be hesitant to spend money for just three horse power.

consider rigging up a holder for the weights so they are farther forward giving the front wheels more traction.

Building it as we speak. I got a great deal on mine (someone had debts to pay) so I'm not too hesitant to trade up for a bit extra.
.

 

[Beaver Cove Deere]

Nobody is going to be able to feel a 3HP change.

 

[SirFallalot]

Nobody is going to be able to feel a 3HP change.

That's not what she said

 

[bmaverick]

On the older Japan gray market tractors, the Hp was based on JIS and other Asian standards back in the day. Moving those standards forward into an SAE level of today, the numbers will rise a little. My machine is rated as 26Hp Japan JIS, yet looking at data per the Nebraska Tests, it can be 31Hp.

Likewise, the Massey 1010 shows 16Hp engine and 13PTO. Though, no test showing any real data power curves.
TractorData.com Massey Ferguson 1010 tractor information

It's not ease comparing the JIS Hp to the SAE Hp standards. In some instances it's a few percentages of being really close and others as far off as 15%.

With all that said, 3Hp can be a wash from the engine. Now, engine size for a longer stroke of the same sized pistons would prove itself. And the mid-range gears are an additional benefit.

 

[ning]

Nobody is going to be able to feel a 3HP change.

If you had 14hp, and suddenly got a 3HP boost, you'd feel it (+20%).

My 35hp tractor, upgrading to a 38, wouldn't be too impressive (+8%). The equivalent for me would be a 42hp tractor - which for my purposes wouldn't gain me much, because 35 is already doing the job, but in OP's case, the 14hp isn't doing the job, and he's considering if adding 20% hp would.

@SirFallalot - Is there a particular C174 that you're considering? Could you borrow/demo/rent it for a day to try it?

 

[Snowlan]

Nobody is going to be able to feel a 3HP change.

A person moving wood by hand will most certainly notice a 3HP change, and 3HP doubled to 6HP is a big change, etc. It all depends how close a given situation is to the extremes.

I'm not familiar with these tractors, if some searching could uncover HP and Torque curves for the engines it would be helpful. If the numbers are rounded off up or down for either engine it can make the difference even less, or greater. Others have already touched on the combined benefits of mid range and rear remotes maybe making the overall upgrade worth while. Also, does the upgrade cost much if you are able to sell the current tractor?