Used Value vs Age

[Doughknob]

Some people just simply enjoy whining. Helps nothing; but if it makes them happy.......

 

[Hay Dude]

This makes me laugh!
Emissions have cost us fuel mileage since day one.
No direct comparrison for tractors but every car, truck and motorcycle I own with emissions has given less mpg than a similar vehicle before.

Doesnt it? I’m not 100% sure, but it sounds like the words spoken of a “faculty lounge expert”, with no real world experience.
From the belt driven smog pump of 1972 all the way to today’s DPFs and all the catalytic converters in between, every pollution control device reduces efficiency and increases fuel consumption. That’s just plain fact for the last 50 years.
Now do they reduce emissions? Of course they do and that’s a good thing. However, the word we are focused on is “efficiency“.

 

[Hay Dude]

New tractors have certainly gotten much more expensive after the significant changes with the 2014 emissions restrictions. This has kept prices up on the newer pre-emissions used tractors as a result as people often do choose between new and lightly used. The prices of 40+ year old units or somewhat newer ones with a lot of wear have NOT changed all that much as people don't normally comparison shop between a brand-new tractor or a 50 year old one. We have also have a big disruption to the supply chains with the whole coronavirus ordeal and it is much more difficult to get new tractors right now, period, so the price of any new or newish tractor is going to be higher than a year or so ago as well.

I don't see much evidence of the 2014-up units being noticeably less desirable than the 2013 and older units. If that was the case, you would see people getting very little for trade-ins on tractors made since 2014 and also the prices of a 2014 used tractor would be noticeably less than that of an otherwise similar 2013. We do not see that.

As far as whether or not the 2014-up units are particularly troublesome with regards to emissions or the near-ubiquitous adoption of electronic engine controls, about the only common issues I have heard in utility and compact tractors relate to one specific model of Kubota being very troublesome and some people with flaky throttle and ECU electronics on smaller CNH utility tractors. I haven't personally had any issues but haven't had the tractor for years yet. The exhaust smells noticeably different than a 2013 and older unit and there is an extra switch on the dash that the owner's manual essentially says to not touch, but that is all I have seen so far. The rated fuel usage according to Nebraska between the pre-2014 and 2014-up versions of my tractor show the new units use about 1/2 gallon more per hour at full load than the equivalent older engines, but the current engines do also make more power and torque across the entire powerband.

Agree somewhat, but those “2014 and up” units you speak of are not quite old enough to start needing pollution control systems repaired or replaced.
Give it about 5 more years and the repair replacement bills start coming in.
I replaced (2) DPF systems on (2) different 2008 Ford trucks with DPFs to the tune of about $2500 each.
That did a real number on the “efficiency“ of my bank account!

 

[wolc123]

Doesnt it? I’m not 100% sure, but it sounds like the words spoken of a “faculty lounge expert”, with no real world experience.
From the belt driven smog pump of 1972 all the way to today’s DPFs and all the catalytic converters in between, every pollution control device reduces efficiency and increases fuel consumption. That’s just plain fact for the last 50 years.
Now do they reduce emissions? Of course they do and that’s a good thing. However, the word we are focused on is “efficiency“.

Spot on. Problem is, most of these folks have liberal arts degrees and no real knowledge of math and science. They are really lacking in thermodynamics and the understanding that energy can neither be created or destroyed.

 

[Hay Dude]

Not only do they reduce efficiency, but they also create more heat.
Anyone who makes a living around machinery or vehicles knows those hot DPFs, Catalytic Converters, etc create equipment life-shortening heat which creates all kinds of issues, from the possibility of wild fires, to discomfort of operation, requiring more air conditioning in cabs to shortening of component life, requiring more parts and services, which means more parts to be made in factories, which means increased pollution. More service truck trips from the dealer to the farm, mine, etc means more air pollution from service truck exhausts. Also there’s a human component. More service truck trips means more possibilities of death or injury in vehicular accidents or service persons injured servicing pollution equipment.
People in colleges just don’t understand the impact of all this pollution stuff they force on us. It’s not thought through completely.

 

[fried1765]

Also used equipment is USED which means while there may be less parts to wear out, they are further along in the process of wearing out than new machines.

Also used machines represent buying someone else’s neglect/problems.

Neither is a good case for claiming improved reliability nor reduced liability of paying for parts(most used machines without emissions equipment are no longer under warranty )

Oh no!
Now I am seriously worried!
I did not realize that the 2006 251 hour Kubota L48 TLB I bought 25 months ago, was actually "someone else's neglect/problems".
The L48 TLB is 2006 pre emissions, so I therefore also suffer from the most dreaded tractor scenario of having no warranty.
From current comparables, it appears that I could sell my L48 TLB today, for at least $12K more than I paid.
What am I missing in this picture?

 

[wolc123]

I am very thankful to have purchased what will likely be the last new tractor I will ever need, back in 2005. I was able to get a 43 hp, made in America tractor with an American diesel power plant back then to boot, and cheaper than some of the Asian powered models that the competition offered:

 

[Hay Dude]

I was beyond happy when I bought my well used Case-IH MX-270.
Built in USA, extremely efficient and easy to repair. Reliable and very clean running. American made Cummins 8.3L diesel @ 270 PTO HP.
Built in Wisconsin by American UAW employees at a Case-IH factory.

Sorry to see those days are over, as America declines into debt and kicks all manufacturing off shore, but hey, we have more “efficiency“, right?

 

[rScotty]

Can you be more specific?

How can you say it doesn't store the soot if it catches it and waits for something to happen?

What's an EGT? Some sort of chemical?

What kind of less harmful gas can soot be converted to? I thought soot was mostly carbon.

 

[espacef1fan]

This makes me laugh!
Emissions have cost us fuel mileage since day one.
No direct comparrison for tractors but every car, truck and motorcycle I own with emissions has given less mpg than a similar vehicle before.

Anecdotal, I know but I have a 06 Triumph Bonneville. It is carbed. Like other carbed Bonnevilles it gets between 38 and 45 mpg.


In 08 they went to EFI, for emissions.

The rule for those bikes is they get around 50mpg+.

Another anecdote.

Look at pickup truck fuel economy and capability in 1985 vs today.

Strangely we are both in the golden age of power and the age of the cleanest vehicles ever produced.