As a customer what is acceptable to you?

[Frankenkubota]

One reason so many manufacturers went overseas was because the labor unions forced them to...with extremely high tax rates and excessive labor costs it was either fold up or move abroad...
In a lot of cases the greedy unions and their members demanded themselves right out of their jobs...and it serves them right...!

as a kid, or...very young man i remember the brewery workers in Milwaukee threatening to go out on strike. For unskilled labor they did pretty good.

I'm pretty sure it was like the UAW in that they targeted 1 manufacturer for the strike but the support was union wide.

We had at least 4 big breweries there and they all said.....if you go out on strike, we are moving.

You guessed it, they went on strike, breweries moved. the last big brewery in Milwaukee is miller, the rest left.

In most cases, pun intended, the brewery worker sat at a machine and watched it fill bottles, highly automated, and easy to replace.

Side note....in the early 70s i was picking up some marketing stuff from miller for a co. i worked for. Because of the union rules, as a driver, i HAD to wait in the drivers lounge, couldn't get close to the dock. In the drivers lounge they had tons of cold beer, all you wanted, free!

To this day that strikes me as odd, and back in the day i could drink beer with the best of them!

 

[Hay Dude]

Exactly, yet too many only look at the price they are paying without considering the full cost. As I've said in the past, the more necessary something is for life the less we are willing to pay for it. We bi*** about farming practices yet buy the lowest priced can of mushrooms on the shelf or bag of shrimp in the cooler, with no regard that they came from Thailand or the Philippines and have no idea what the growing medium was.

Hitting close to home with me on that. I live near “ The mushroom capital of the world” (Kennett Square/Avondale) and sell a lot of hay to them for growing mushrooms. I have watched them produce the growing medium for decades.
You are correct, people do buy foreign, cheaper mushrooms and it’s sad to see. The American growers in my area go through a lot of trouble to grow shitakes, portobellos and other ‘shrooms the right way and deliver them fresh to the market.

 

[Hay Dude]

If we are all so “woke” now and it’s a “world community“ now, why do we buy foreign products made by people who can’t earn a decent or “living wage” no matter WHERE they live?
It seems almost cruel to force other nations of people make everything at low wages for us to consume while crying from the mountain tops about how we must pay workers more.
Why wouldnt those same people insist everything they buy is made by people who don’t have to suffer low wages and cruel working conditions?
Can we all agree in these days of such heightened awareness that their mostly Asian-made accessories are made by folks making much less than a ”living wage”?

Funny how stridently the new push for minimum wage HERE in the US is. With virtually NOTHING made here anymore, these same people don’t care the very clothes they wear are made by people making a buck an hour?????
Doesnt sound like someone who’s very “awake” to me?

 

[Popisin]

as a kid, or...very young man i remember the brewery workers in Milwaukee threatening to go out on strike. For unskilled labor they did pretty good.

I'm pretty sure it was like the UAW in that they targeted 1 manufacturer for the strike but the support was union wide.

We had at least 4 big breweries there and they all said.....if you go out on strike, we are moving.

You guessed it, they went on strike, breweries moved. the last big brewery in Milwaukee is miller, the rest left.

In most cases, pun intended, the brewery worker sat at a machine and watched it fill bottles, highly automated, and easy to replace.

Side note....in the early 70s i was picking up some marketing stuff from miller for a co. i worked for. Because of the union rules, as a driver, i HAD to wait in the drivers lounge, couldn't get close to the dock. In the drivers lounge they had tons of cold beer, all you wanted, free!

To this day that strikes me as odd, and back in the day i could drink beer with the best of them!

Is the argument that a person who works a manufacturing job is less worthy of health and safety and wage expectations than a person who is in a skilled trade? Is a skilled trade less worthy of those considerations than a professional? Is a professional less worthy than a executive?

Labor organizations didn't force the hand of industry to go offshore. Labor organizations were a response to the abuses of industry on the humans that did the manufacturing. Unions are the unified voice of working people. Individually working people were cogs in a wheel of production and their value was a function of spreadsheet economics. The united front provided by union membership gave them the power to raise their boats and the boats of working people that weren't members as well.

Industry is a machine. It responds to inputs. Labor relations is an input. Cheaper labor elsewhere is an input. Lax regulatory oversight is an input. Favorable tax rules is an input. Government enticements is an input. Accessible supply chain is an input. Industry is not about human wants and needs. It responds to conditions. It seeks the least expensive way to profit. Occasionally an industry determines, remembers really, that it is actually humans and then makes business decisions with that in mind. That's the exception that proves the rule as the example of Miller illustrates.

At the end of the day employee organization may play into business's decision to move. Those businesses were going to move sooner or later due to one or the other of any of a number of inputs and labor organization was the trigger, or, they were going to see themselves as human members of a community, a region, a state, a nation and develop strategies to work within the needs of the community they were in and still profit.

If I lived in Milwaukee, if I was a drinker, then I would buy Miller. Put another way, I'm willing to pay extra for goods provided by businesses that see themselves as part of the community I am part of. That includes a living wage for their employees and health and safety considerations which define a business as human beings making a product instead of industry making a product.

 

[Hay Dude]

Is the argument that a person who works a manufacturing job is less worthy of health and safety and wage expectations than a person who is in a skilled trade? Is a skilled trade less worthy of those considerations than a professional? Is a professional less worthy than a executive?

Labor organizations didn't force the hand of industry to go offshore. Labor organizations were a response to the abuses of industry on the humans that did the manufacturing. Unions are the unified voice of working people. Individually working people were cogs in a wheel of production and their value was a function of spreadsheet economics. The united front provided by union membership gave them the power to raise their boats and the boats of working people that weren't members as well.

Industry is a machine. It responds to inputs. Labor relations is an input. Cheaper labor elsewhere is an input. Lax regulatory oversight is an input. Favorable tax rules is an input. Government enticements is an input. Accessible supply chain is an input. Industry is not about human wants and needs. It responds to conditions. It seeks the least expensive way to profit. Occasionally an industry determines, remembers really, that it is actually humans and then makes business decisions with that in mind. That's the exception that proves the rule as the example of Miller illustrates.

At the end of the day employee organization may play into business's decision to move. Those businesses were going to move sooner or later due to one or the other of any of a number of inputs and labor organization was the trigger, or, they were going to see themselves as human members of a community, a region, a state, a nation and develop strategies to work within the needs of the community they were in and still profit.

If I lived in Milwaukee, if I was a drinker, then I would buy Miller. Put another way, I'm willing to pay extra for goods provided by businesses that see themselves as part of the community I am part of. That includes a living wage for their employees and health and safety considerations which define a business as human beings making a product instead of industry making a product.

I know dozens of union members who have told me their union representatives no longer have rank and file union members best interests in mind.

 

[Popisin]

I'm not defending or glorifying unions. Their function is as a voice for working people. Whether they do that job well is the responsibility of the rank and file to elect into leadership better representatives. Apparently you know dozens of people who should work to elect representation that more closely reflects their expectations from their officers.

Kind of like elections in general.

 

[Hay Dude]

I'm not defending or glorifying unions. Their function is as a voice for working people. Whether they do that job well is the responsibility of the rank and file to elect into leadership better representatives. Apparently you know dozens of people who should work to elect representation that more closely reflects their expectations from their officers.

Kind of like elections in general.

Wonder how well those “elections” are monitored for accuracy? Or could the unions be holding their so called elections for the appearance of being “democratic“?
I know many union members who complain their beliefs are not represented, yet they are forced to be members. Hmmmmm sounds strange why you would be forced to join. If it was so amazing, everyone would volunteer to join.

Elections these days are not held in high esteem and many are not held in good faith.
I like “trust, but verify” philosophy.

 

[MoKelly]

In no way am I disagreeing, but... American companies tend to squeeze their profits out of the pockets of the employees, to the benefit of the shareholders. Look around you right now; have you ever seen so many business's shut down because they don't have enough people? If I'm working like a dog all week, at least pay me enough to buy a juicy bone and a decent doghouse to live in... That's all I'm say'n.

Have you ever owned a business - put your hard earned money down and started something?

If not, you should. Try your ideas and see how it goes.


MoKelly

 

[Pixguy]

Have you ever owned a business - put your hard earned money down and started something?

If not, you should. Try your ideas and see how it goes.


MoKelly

I do know that Steppenwolfe indeeds owns a commercial contractor business that hires union tradesmen. I take it that they do quality work and everyone makes money and the customers must be happy or they'd be out of business.

We don't see eye to eye on all subjects (he's wrong, I'm right ) but he does know his stuff.

 

[Bobctat2035]

This thread is hilarious.
Farm folk pretending to understand how the retail / wholesale / import / sea cargo and general international supply chain works is like Jeff Bezos pretending to know how farming works.

You're website that sells tools and machinery. You have literally zero stock and drop ship from a manufacturer. Someone orders a machine and you send your PO to the manufacturer. The manufacture tells you 12 weeks because they're out of stock, backordered and still being made in China. You tell your customer 12 weeks.
Now that production is delayed because there is a steel/wood/aluminum/chip/labor shortage. Now 14 weeks.
Now there are customs issues at the port in China. 15 weeks.
Now some ****** got his boat stuck sideways in Suez Canal. 17 weeks.
Now customs decided to ransack your cargo in New York to search for drugs. 18 weeks.
Now the union dock workers in NY are striking for more benefits and time off. 20 weeks.

This is how your 12 week lead time turns into 20 weeks through no fault of the retailers and small businesses. You people crying about how you think retailers are just loving this current broken system because "it's a free loan" have no idea wtf you're talking about. No, we do not get enjoyment from 75% of phone calls being status update questions.

They want their orders to keep piling in because once they have your money they got you.

Just because we have your money doesn't mean "we got you." It's as easy as cancelling and getting a refund to buy it somewhere else. Oh wait, you can't buy it somewhere else because THAT ITEM IS BACKORDERED EVERYWHERE 16 WEEKS.
Nothing I love more than when stupid people call up to cancel orders because of long lead times only to have them re-ordered and be put in the back of the line because they were too stupid to realize they can't buy our products on Amazon or anywhere else.

I get complaining about waiting 16 weeks for something. It sucks. I do have a problem with pretending to have a grasp of why you're waiting 16 weeks for something and being so spectacularly wrong because you've been brainwashed by Amazonomics while also condemning every small business in the US while championing Amazon's Chinese crap spamming America saving 2 day prime delivery.

Perhaps you all would prefer if every company in the US removed anything they can't deliver to your door in 48 hours from their catalogs. Maybe then you'd quit your crying.

/endrant