Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Grumpycat]

As a teenager I ran car on fumes...always running out of gas. Then I got smart and never let it go much below 1/4.

Nothing wrong with letting the fuel tank go below 1/4. The "overheating fuel pump" lore is provably wrong. Chintzy domestic automakers saved a few pennies by wiring the in-tank fuel pump direct to the ignition key. Letting the fuel pump run when there was not enough fuel to run the engine is what burns out the fuel pump. Modern vehicles will not run the fuel pump more than 20-30 seconds after the ignition is turned on without the engine running. This means if you run out of gas and the engine does not start quickly you might as well turn it off and try again because the fuel pump is not running. Could crank the engine for 30 minutes and it will never start.

There are gas stations most places every few miles...not so with charging stations. I know this argument has been beat to death but of course charging stations will be everywhere in 10 years...along with power line towers everywhere and $Billions of taxpayer money and higher electric bills.
This view from my horse stable down to the barn won't look like this now since mountains will be clear cut, towers installed.
Try charging an electric car/truck in 5 minutes like I can with fuel.

Try having a full tank every morning before you leave home.

Secondly, I know you can not turn off the road, pull up to a gas pump, buy 20 gallons, and drive off in 5 minutes. But I can park my Tesla in the driveway and have it charging in 15 seconds including the time to undo my seatbelt and open the car door. Then another outrageous 15 seconds to disconnect in the morning. All for about 3¢/mile. In a 5.4 seconds-to-60 car.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Nothing wrong with letting the fuel tank go below 1/4. The "overheating fuel pump" lore is provably wrong. Chintzy domestic automakers saved a few pennies by wiring the in-tank fuel pump direct to the ignition key. Letting the fuel pump run when there was not enough fuel to run the engine is what burns out the fuel pump. Modern vehicles will not run the fuel pump more than 20-30 seconds after the ignition is turned on without the engine running. This means if you run out of gas and the engine does not start quickly you might as well turn it off and try again because the fuel pump is not running. Could crank the engine for 30 minutes and it will never start.


Try having a full tank every morning before you leave home.

Secondly, I know you can not turn off the road, pull up to a gas pump, buy 20 gallons, and drive off in 5 minutes. But I can park my Tesla in the driveway and have it charging in 15 seconds including the time to undo my seatbelt and open the car door. Then another outrageous 15 seconds to disconnect in the morning. All for about 3¢/mile. In a 5.4 seconds-to-60 car.

That last part doesn't make sense, no disrespect. Of course as I pull up to pump my belt's retracting, gas door open. I hop out, insert card & nozzle, pump gas. I know it can't be more than 5 minutes start/finish.
You can't charge an electric car in five minutes. You're talking about plugging in overnight.
If your car did 0-60 in one second I'd be 200 miles away!

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Misaligned factory robot may have sparked Chevy Bolt battery fires

Fire the robot he did it!

You can't fire him... he most likely has seniority...

 

[Jstpssng]

Nothing wrong with letting the fuel tank go below 1/4. The "overheating fuel pump" lore is provably wrong. Chintzy domestic automakers saved a few pennies by wiring the in-tank fuel pump direct to the ignition key. Letting the fuel pump run when there was not enough fuel to run the engine is what burns out the fuel pump. Modern vehicles will not run the fuel pump more than 20-30 seconds after the ignition is turned on without the engine running. This means if you run out of gas and the engine does not start quickly you might as well turn it off and try again because the fuel pump is not running. Could crank the engine for 30 minutes and it will never start.


Try having a full tank every morning before you leave home.

Secondly, I know you can not turn off the road, pull up to a gas pump, buy 20 gallons, and drive off in 5 minutes. But I can park my Tesla in the driveway and have it charging in 15 seconds including the time to undo my seatbelt and open the car door. Then another outrageous 15 seconds to disconnect in the morning. All for about 3¢/mile. In a 5.4 seconds-to-60 car.

I do. It doesn't always happen, but I try to fill up at the last station before getting home. I also can go 400+ miles on a tank, and fuel up in minutes if I"m on a trip. However, I am considering a new Maverick for a primary vehicle next year. I run back and forth 1/4 mile to my livestock and garden multiple times every day, it would be nice to not have to start the engine every time.

 

[Grumpycat]

That last part doesn't make sense, no disrespect. Of course as I pull up to pump my belt's retracting, gas door open. I hop out, insert card & nozzle, pump gas. I know it can't be more than 5 minutes start/finish.

Then you have never timed it. A quick interstate stop takes 15 minutes. To quickly dive into Walmart for gas is about 10 with pay-at-the-pump. Did exactly that this evening. Only bought 8.5 gallons.

You can't charge an electric car in five minutes. You're talking about plugging in overnight.

I do not take 5 minutes out of my week to pump gas or charge. I only charge my Tesla to 205 miles of range because more is not necessary even for driving 70 miles to, 70 miles back from my interests out of town. It "held" 250 miles last time I tried. It is always ready by morning.

At 3¢/mile and the $2.619/gallon I paid to fill the Subaru my Tesla gets the cost equivalent of 87 MPG. About 1/3rd the cost of gasoline for the Subaru.

Ironically the exotic Michelin 245/45-19 tires on the Tesla cost less than the (I don't like these) Bridgestone 225/60-18 on the Subaru. Wear about the same.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

That last part doesn't make sense, no disrespect. Of course as I pull up to pump my belt's retracting, gas door open. I hop out, insert card & nozzle, pump gas. I know it can't be more than 5 minutes start/finish.
You can't charge an electric car in five minutes. You're talking about plugging in overnight.
If your car did 0-60 in one second I'd be 200 miles away!

The robot does the filling and shutting of the pump. I am guessing you do not have a home connection for charging your EV yet.

 

[Grumpycat]

I do. It doesn't always happen, but I try to fill up at the last station before getting home. I also can go 400+ miles on a tank, and fuel up in minutes if I"m on a trip. However, I am considering a new Maverick for a primary vehicle next year. I run back and forth 1/4 mile to my livestock and garden multiple times every day, it would be nice to not have to start the engine every time.

The 400+ mile day is a relatively rare event for most people. I do it 2-4 times/year and have often done 500 miles in one day on one tank.

But in the Tesla for normal use typically 25 miles/day I spend 15 seconds picking up the EVSE umbilical on the right, then insert in car to my left. Even on 140 mile days it takes no longer because it is always ready by morning.

Fearmongering claims of how quickly one can pump gasoline vs EV charge requires one to suspend reality by forcing the EV to be used exactly as one might use an ICE. That one has to use "gas stations". That one goes days or weeks between refueling. For less than 200 miles/day I take less time out of my week connecting my car than you spend buying gasoline.

Tesla Superchargers are placed on average 100 miles apart. On my 500 mile/day route they are 150 miles which means I spend more time charging than on an ideal route. The thing gasheads can't/won't understand is how at a high power DC fast charger (120kW or more) it is much faster per mile driven to charge from 40 miles to 140 miles with a 250 mile battery than to charge from 40 to 250. The extra 100 miles takes 3x longer than the first 100 miles. Depending on model of Tesla and model of Tesla Supercharger one can put 100 miles of range (at the 40 to 140 end) into the battery in 10-20 minutes.

At my home 240V (50A circuit, 40A load) the car adds 29 miles per hour no matter how much is already in the battery. Only the last 5-10 miles to 100% slows. But once again, it is always ready by morning.

And reiterating on another gasheadism: EVs do not need "gas stations". Do not want "gas stations" on every corner the way the ignorant believe. The only need for an EV charging station away from one's home is for long distance travel.

The foolish $3.5T pork bill being rammed through Congress will prove the lack of need of the EV charging stations it builds when 10 years from now they are barely utilized. Why would anyone buy electricity from Electrify America (where the VW fines are being "invested") at 3x the cost of charging at home? Answer: Only if one is on a road trip.

 

[Grumpycat]

The robot does the filling and shutting of the pump. I am guessing you do not have a home connection for charging your EV yet.

Who needs/wants a robot when it takes 15 seconds to attach an EVSE plug?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Who needs/wants a robot when it takes 15 seconds to attach an EVSE plug?

The EVSE is the robot I was talking about. It is just a computerized switch controlled by the EV.

 

[Jstpssng]

The 400+ mile day is a relatively rare event for most people. I do it 2-4 times/year and have often done 500 miles in one day on one tank.

But in the Tesla for normal use typically 25 miles/day I spend 15 seconds picking up the EVSE umbilical on the right, then insert in car to my left. Even on 140 mile days it takes no longer because it is always ready by morning.

Fearmongering claims of how quickly one can pump gasoline vs EV charge requires one to suspend reality by forcing the EV to be used exactly as one might use an ICE. That one has to use "gas stations". That one goes days or weeks between refueling. For less than 200 miles/day I take less time out of my week connecting my car than you spend buying gasoline.

Tesla Superchargers are placed on average 100 miles apart. On my 500 mile/day route they are 150 miles which means I spend more time charging than on an ideal route. The thing gasheads can't/won't understand is how at a high power DC fast charger (120kW or more) it is much faster per mile driven to charge from 40 miles to 140 miles with a 250 mile battery than to charge from 40 to 250. The extra 100 miles takes 3x longer than the first 100 miles. Depending on model of Tesla and model of Tesla Supercharger one can put 100 miles of range (at the 40 to 140 end) into the battery in 10-20 minutes.

At my home 240V (50A circuit, 40A load) the car adds 29 miles per hour no matter how much is already in the battery. Only the last 5-10 miles to 100% slows. But once again, it is always ready by morning.

And reiterating on another gasheadism: EVs do not need "gas stations". Do not want "gas stations" on every corner the way the ignorant believe. The only need for an EV charging station away from one's home is for long distance travel.

The foolish $3.5T pork bill being rammed through Congress will prove the lack of need of the EV charging stations it builds when 10 years from now they are barely utilized. Why would anyone buy electricity from Electrify America (where the VW fines are being "invested") at 3x the cost of charging at home? Answer: Only if one is on a road trip.

One reason that I keep my tank filled is because of power outages. Call me a fear mongerer, yet one reason that I do so is so that I'm not stranded in a power outage. Running below 1/2 tank just doesn't make sense to me; even when I do a 400 mile trip I still fill up midway. It's especially a good idea in winter.

I'm not fundamentally opposed to EVs, I just don't believe that they are the cure-all which some seem to want us to believe... and I'm not referring to TBN members with that last comment.