Engine seized???

[bkline19]

Hi all,
Jinma 284 owner!
Unfortunately I don't have a ton of knowledge of the history of this tractor, as I just purchased it a couple months ago. I also don't have a ton of mechanical knowledge or understanding, so bear that in mind as well. To start, the tractor was running fine upon purchase - though there was no air filter at all, and I'm concerned that might be contributing to what's now happening. I was gone for a month and upon return, I went to fire things up. The tractor turned over and emitted a good amount of black smoke, but didn't engage. I attempted to turn it over again and it struggled on the second try. Attempted again and it just made a "clunk" sound, which I assume is the starter hitting the flywheel and struggling to move it. I took the starter off and tested it in isolation. It ran fine. I tried to move the flywheel through the gap where the starter normally seats, and was unable to budge it with a crowbar in the teeth. The fan up front moves but won't move the timing belt. The generator fan moves but won't move the timing belt. The timing belt is seized up and I can't move it at all with all my strength. I've read about people using something to try to move the crankshaft but I'm not sure where people are tying onto that - all I can see is it connects up to the hydraulic pump up front, and can't see anywhere that I'd be able to get anything onto it for leverage.

Honestly, I don't understand how the engine seized up when it's been running as recently as a month ago. I pulled the oil dipstick and there's nothing out of the ordinary - no signs of water, etc. Two out of three glow plugs show resistance. Could the third one not firing up be enough to keep things from turning over? It was quite warm - in the 70s - when I made these attempts.

I had just purchased an air breather assembly and was about to install it, but now I can't even get the tractor to start, and I have no idea where to go from here.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[oldnslo]

I would suggest removing the fuel injectors and they try to turn engine over by hand. This will let you know if one or more cylinders is full of fuel or water from the missing intake filter assembly.

fact that it turned over some doesn’t sound seized but unfortunately stranger things have happened.

 

[Roadworthy]

Generally copious black smoke indicates an excess of fuel. This can be a blocked air intake or overly generous injectors. I'm totally unfamiliar with Jinma tractors. Normally I rotate an engine with a socket and breaker bar on the bolt at the front of the crankshaft. You make it sound like the hydraulic pump is located there. It may not be the case but is is possible your hydraulic pump has seized due to low fluid level?

 

[bkline19]

I would suggest removing the fuel injectors and they try to turn engine over by hand. This will let you know if one or more cylinders is full of fuel or water from the missing intake filter assembly.

fact that it turned over some doesn’t sound seized but unfortunately stranger things have happened.

Thank you - can you advise how to go about turning it over by hand? Is cranking on the flywheel advised or is there a better option? It's hard to get leverage in the small window that's open for the starter assembly to fill.

 

[bkline19]

Generally copious black smoke indicates an excess of fuel. This can be a blocked air intake or overly generous injectors. I'm totally unfamiliar with Jinma tractors. Normally I rotate an engine with a socket and breaker bar on the bolt at the front of the crankshaft. You make it sound like the hydraulic pump is located there. It may not be the case but is is possible your hydraulic pump has seized due to low fluid level?

Thank you - a good thing for me to check - it's very possible that the hydraulic pump seized up. Would adding hyd. fluid be the only intervention to make in order for compression to return to it, or do I need to do something more?

 

[Tinhack]

Rats and their nests don't compress very well. Leaving the intake open to critters is a bad idea. Sounds like it was about to start until it sucked something into a cylinder or two. I would unbolt everything up to the intake manifold and see if there's any nesting material evident. If there is, the head will most likely need to come off so you can clean out the cylinders. And be prepared for the worst smell ever.

 

[duffer]

Rats and their nests don't compress very well. Leaving the intake open to critters is a bad idea. Sounds like it was about to start until it sucked something into a cylinder or two.

That was my initial thought as well. A mouse, snake, or something found a nice dry, shaded place to stay every nite, away from predators. Since it ran fine the last time you used it, and now it won't crank at all, something happened in the interim.

 

[bkline19]

Generally copious black smoke indicates an excess of fuel. This can be a blocked air intake or overly generous injectors. I'm totally unfamiliar with Jinma tractors. Normally I rotate an engine with a socket and breaker bar on the bolt at the front of the crankshaft. You make it sound like the hydraulic pump is located there. It may not be the case but is is possible your hydraulic pump has seized due to low fluid level?

Thank you - a good thing for me to check - it's very possible that the hydraulic pump seized up. Would adding hyd. fluid be the only intervention to make in order for compression to return to it, or do I need to do something more?

Rats and their nests don't compress very well. Leaving the intake open to critters is a bad idea. Sounds like it was about to start until it sucked something into a cylinder or two. I would unbolt everything up to the intake manifold and see if there's any nesting material evident. If there is, the head will most likely need to come off so you can clean out the cylinders. And be prepared for the worst smell ever.

I was afraid of this... I had meant to stuff some steel wool into the intake before I left but totally forgot to do so... I suppose I'm paying for it now :/

That was my initial thought as well. A mouse, snake, or something found a nice dry, shaded place to stay every nite, away from predators. Since it ran fine the last time you used it, and now it won't crank at all, something happened in the interim.

I think you're right... I'll have to take the intake off and have a look what's going on..

 

[Cycledude]

No air filter and you actually kept running it like that ?

 

[bkline19]

No air filter and you actually kept running it like that ?

No - I had just purchased the tractor and it didn't have one on - when I inspected it there was no blow-by, so I thought it was lucky to not have any issues yet. I had bought an air filter to install that day I went out there. Went to start it to move it to make the installation easier, and that's when all of this happened.

 

[bkline19]

For what it's worth, just checked intake for scent and it doesn't smell like any kind of living creature was in there... haven't unbolted anything yet though.

 

[oldnslo]

Thank you - can you advise how to go about turning it over by hand? Is cranking on the flywheel advised or is there a better option? It's hard to get leverage in the small window that's open for the starter assembly to fill.

Yes you can use teeth on flywheel. Just use your judgment on how much force to apply. Get to rambunctious and you can break teeth off the flywheel

 

[bkline19]

Yes you can use teeth on flywheel. Just use your judgment on how much force to apply. Get to rambunctious and you can break teeth off the flywheel

Thank you! Will let y'all know how it goes.

 

[DieselBound]

I'd still recommend pulling the injectors; or, perhaps better yet, pull the glow plugs (you already have a bad one that needs pulling anyway).

Be real careful about using force. Rarely does force end up producing good results in things such as this.

One possible scenario is that it's hydrolocked. Maybe leaking injectors?

 

[Richard]

Thank you - can you advise how to go about turning it over by hand? Is cranking on the flywheel advised or is there a better option? It's hard to get leverage in the small window that's open for the starter assembly to fill.

Not sure I've seen your question clearly answered....

If I understand you correctly, you're asking about turning the engine over by using the flywheel at the back of the engine where the starter might engage to start it.

You might find it easier to put a socket on the front of the engine. Put it on the harmonic balancer or flywheel pully at the bottom of the engine. The pully that is attached to the crankshaft.

Now you can gently rotate the engine with a long handled wrench (think breaker bar) I've got a 24" socket wrench so that would make something like that easy to do by ratcheting the wrench in place.

You might be able to do this while standing in front of the machine instead of perhaps crawling under it (no idea how you're getting your access)

 

[DieselBound]

Fully recommend rotating via socket and breaker bar from the pulley end of the crank. Can apply a more even force. Not as much leverage off of flywheel teeth (potential for busting your knuckles).

Make it easy. Pull the GPs! Spray them with some PB Blaster (or such) and let them soak for a bit. Usually it's best to run an engine before removing the GPs (heat them up), but that option, clearly, isn't available.

If there's any meaningful resistance going clockwise check for counterclockwise rotation, but only turn in that direction a little bit to ascertain how locked things might be. Locking tends to happen due to combustion chamber contention: dropped/broken valve. Rotating the engine counterclockwise will test this situation.

Might also be advisable to then pull the valve cover to see if there are any signs there: it would be pretty obvious.

 

[bkline19]

Not sure I've seen your question clearly answered....

If I understand you correctly, you're asking about turning the engine over by using the flywheel at the back of the engine where the starter might engage to start it.

You might find it easier to put a socket on the front of the engine. Put it on the harmonic balancer or flywheel pully at the bottom of the engine. The pully that is attached to the crankshaft.

Now you can gently rotate the engine with a long handled wrench (think breaker bar) I've got a 24" socket wrench so that would make something like that easy to do by ratcheting the wrench in place.

You might be able to do this while standing in front of the machine instead of perhaps crawling under it (no idea how you're getting your access)

Unfortunately I can't seem to get a socket on there - because the crankshaft leads forward directly into a hydraulic pump mounted on the front frame bracket. So, I can't figure out how to get leverage on the crankshaft up front, as a result!

 

[bkline19]

Fully recommend rotating via socket and breaker bar from the pulley end of the crank. Can apply a more even force. Not as much leverage off of flywheel teeth (potential for busting your knuckles).

Make it easy. Pull the GPs! Spray them with some PB Blaster (or such) and let them soak for a bit. Usually it's best to run an engine before removing the GPs (heat them up), but that option, clearly, isn't available.

If there's any meaningful resistance going clockwise check for counterclockwise rotation, but only turn in that direction a little bit to ascertain how locked things might be. Locking tends to happen due to combustion chamber contention: dropped/broken valve. Rotating the engine counterclockwise will test this situation.

Might also be advisable to then pull the valve cover to see if there are any signs there: it would be pretty obvious.

Thank you!

 

[DieselBound]

Is this an HST or a manual?

Is the radiator fan a fixed one or is it a clutched one? (assuming that's an option for accessing)

I seem to remember someone starting their tractor by turning over the PTO shaft. Not that I'd recommend trying this, but there might be something here to work with. Figure this just a muse (total ignorance on my part).

 

[LouNY]

You can also bump the engine over with a geared transmission and a dry clutch,
by simply putting the tractor in it's highest gear and rocking the whole machine back and forth.
With a front mounted hydraulic pump your options are a bit limited.
A large pry bar to the flywheel teeth or rock the tractor.
Or you can try to rotate it by engaging the pto and turning the shaft but thats only 5 to 1 or so ratio.
Pulling the glow plugs or injectors will remove the compression so it should turn over easily.