Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Gale Hawkins]

I'm starting to wonder based on reports and specs etc if a portion of these Hertz cars will not be coming from China. CA factory is the only other Model 3 factory that Tesla has.

 

[Blue Mule]

I still don't understand the concept. Why is electric the desire? It's not cheaper to drive an EV pickup truck. The cost per mile is identical to an ICE pickup truck due to utility rates. It doesn't save the planet because battery production is very "dirty" and waste management agencies are still trying to figure out what they're going to do with all the battery packs that are beyond life cycle. So you have environmental issues on the front end and back end both.

How many years will it be until you can charge an electric pickup truck in 5 minutes and then drive 500-1000 miles like you can with current pickup trucks?

I had a Jeep employee tell me last week that they had a case where a woman's hybrid minivan had a failed battery system. They believed that her husband may have burned it up by improperly charging it with a home-made 240v outlet. The repair was over $20,000 and Chrysler refused to cover it under warranty. The owners had no choice but to file an insurance claim. The insurance adjuster totaled the vehicle, all over a battery pack.

Why do people think this is the next great thing? ICEs have been around 100+ years for a very good reason, despite all the other change in the world, and that's because there really isn't a better way.

 

[RoyJackson]

I still don't understand the concept. Why is electric the desire? It's not cheaper to drive an EV pickup truck. The cost per mile is identical to an ICE pickup truck due to utility rates. It doesn't save the planet because battery production is very "dirty" and waste management agencies are still trying to figure out what they're going to do with all the battery packs that are beyond life cycle. So you have environmental issues on the front end and back end both.

Mostly due to public relations, propaganda and a lot of folks are ignorant of the destruction and pollution resulting from the manufacture and disposal of batteries.
They see the "Pie in the Sky", but not the pile of dog dung they're about to step in...

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Doing a small solar system is getting more and more attractive price wise and technically speaking as well. Building an EV charging system with 10-20 life span for $5-$10K would be cool to cut out gas and grid availability concerns. With current grid AC costing 3-4 cents per EV mile traveled delaying for better and cheaper solar systems plus being lazy fuels procrastination.

$20K dedicated solar charging for a Tesla would be a very nice especially when you spread it out over 10 or 20 years of use.

 

[RoyJackson]

This was the energy density chart I was looking at the other day.

Horizontal is mass.
Vertical is volume.

By weight or by volume, batteries can only store about 2-3% of the energy that aviation fuel can. Hydrogen can store way more energy than aviation fuel, but it takes up way more volume.

When operating large container ships, both weight and volume have to be considered.

Compressed hydrogen will be key, but more efficient engines and materials have to be developed. There's a lot of R&D going on right now, for both commercial and military usage in aerospace.
But it's not just reduced greenhouse gases. The more efficient engines and structures result in a lighter aircraft....possibly allowing for increased passenger or cargo load.
Hydrogen is the most common element in the universe...highly unlikely we'd ever run out.
For short haul flights, I think electric engines will be that answer. The designs I've seen were propeller driven (by turbine engines) rather then jet
For shipboard use, I wouldn't be too surprised to see a resurgence in nuclear power. There's a lot of research going on for nukes and fusion. It wasn't too long ago, it was thought fusion power was impossible...might still be, but it does appear to be more feasible.

For transportation...definitely more rail. More EVs in higher populated areas (i.e. cities and suburbs). Rural areas will probably still be using some type of fuel...maybe diesel, maybe hydrogen. But something that would have more range and less refill time then batteries.

Time to put the Crystal Ball away for a while...

 

[SylvainG]

I still don't understand the concept. Why is electric the desire? It's not cheaper to drive an EV pickup truck. The cost per mile is identical to an ICE pickup truck due to utility rates. It doesn't save the planet because battery production is very "dirty" and waste management agencies are still trying to figure out what they're going to do with all the battery packs that are beyond life cycle. So you have environmental issues on the front end and back end both.

How many years will it be until you can charge an electric pickup truck in 5 minutes and then drive 500-1000 miles like you can with current pickup trucks?

I had a Jeep employee tell me last week that they had a case where a woman's hybrid minivan had a failed battery system. They believed that her husband may have burned it up by improperly charging it with a home-made 240v outlet. The repair was over $20,000 and Chrysler refused to cover it under warranty. The owners had no choice but to file an insurance claim. The insurance adjuster totaled the vehicle, all over a battery pack.

Why do people think this is the next great thing? ICEs have been around 100+ years for a very good reason, despite all the other change in the world, and that's because there really isn't a better way.

Where are you for kWh/mile being the same as ounce/mile? Here, it' s about 1/15th. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson used 10L per 100 KM so 0.1L per KM. At $1.47 per L, that's $0.147 per KM. My Telsa Model 3 SR+ with its 50 kWh battery drains 30% per 100 KM so 15 kWh per 100 KM, or 150Wh per KM. At $0.0615 per kWh, that's $0.0092 per KM. That's 16 times less than my Tucson.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I still don't understand the concept. Why is electric the desire? It's not cheaper to drive an EV pickup truck. The cost per mile is identical to an ICE pickup truck due to utility rates. It doesn't save the planet because battery production is very "dirty" and waste management agencies are still trying to figure out what they're going to do with all the battery packs that are beyond life cycle. So you have environmental issues on the front end and back end both.

How many years will it be until you can charge an electric pickup truck in 5 minutes and then drive 500-1000 miles like you can with current pickup trucks?

I had a Jeep employee tell me last week that they had a case where a woman's hybrid minivan had a failed battery system. They believed that her husband may have burned it up by improperly charging it with a home-made 240v outlet. The repair was over $20,000 and Chrysler refused to cover it under warranty. The owners had no choice but to file an insurance claim. The insurance adjuster totaled the vehicle, all over a battery pack.

Why do people think this is the next great thing? ICEs have been around 100+ years for a very good reason, despite all the other change in the world, and that's because there really isn't a better way.

EV ownership costs less is what's driving companies like Hertz to move towards EV fleets so EV adoption is just a dollar and sense decision. Hertz will always know the location of their vehicles the driving habits in use plus photos of accidents and passengers.

In the case of an 80 year old owner with with a paid for 2020 Toyota with 5K miles driving 200 miles monthly it's not a money factor but more of a life or death risk factor of self and others. Then there's risk factor the kids taking one's keys unless it it has Full Self Driving feature.

 

[MossRoad]

This was the energy density chart I was looking at the other day.

Horizontal is mass.
Vertical is volume.

By weight or by volume, batteries can only store about 2-3% of the energy that aviation fuel can. Hydrogen can store way more energy than aviation fuel, but it takes up way more volume.

When operating large container ships, both weight and volume have to be considered.

Forgot the chart!

 

[Doughknob]

Do you think there any short sellers covering still going or is the world just starting to realize the EV cost savings and yet Tesla is the only EV maker selling their vehicles at a profit?

There are always shorts covering during a run-up, and it could have contributed some to recent events. But I think the Hertz deal was a surprise. And I also think there is something else going on - but that is just a hunch of mine.

 

[SylvainG]

Forgot the cart!

View attachment 718452

Have to watch it against a white background because the chart has a transparent background lol