Need advice on a larger chainsaw for an older guy.

[geoffleach]

I'm 58 years old and I'm in decent but not excellent physical condition. Average strength I would say.

I am not a chainsaw guy. In other words, I've been using decent consumer Stihl chainsaws all my life but I don't know anything about cc's, chain types, tuning, modding etc etc. Primary use has been yard and property cleanup as well as cutting firewood. I have the proper safety gear and a solid understanding of basic chainsaw safety.
(snip}

I have a Stihl FarmBoss/271. I'm cleaning up after a fire .... a lot of cutting. I took it to the dealer, who, upon hearing what I was doing, said, "You have the wrong saw for the work you are doing. The 271 is for occasional work." I bought a Stihl 261, and it works like a charm. In addition, it has a compression-release button!

One more thing. The bigger the tree, the sharper the chain. I hate stopping in the middle of a cut, but I've learned to change the chain when the cut slows down.

 

[Hoho223]

Husqvarna Rancher 460 with 24” bar. Compression release, easy start. Have a sharp chain and cut anything. I’m 73

 

[4570Man]

Sounds like your chain not the saw. Get your chains professionally sharpened. That saw should be good for what you’re doing

You’d be better off to throw it away and get another one. 99 percent of so called saw sharpeners can’t make them even half way decent.

 

[barts]

I've used a venerable 029 Farm Boss w/ a 20" bar occasionally for 20+ years... good saw. Now that I'm living full time in the Pacific Northwest on 10 acres of 80'+ conifers and pines, and dealing w/ windfalls, root rot, etc. I finally took a chainsaw course. Interesting, and learned a lot about felling trees, taking care of saws, etc. I would get ahold of "To fell a Tree" by Jeff Jepson; lots of good techniques, esp. on felling difficult trees, w/ a bar << tree diameter, etc. The other thing is to learn if you don't already know is how to tune your saw. Proper carb adjustment w/ a chainsaw tach can really make a saw sing. This has helped with milling cedar logs w/ an Alaska mill; some are large enough to bury the 20" bar so I have to get the butts from both sides. Keeping the chain sharp is key to using one of these mills.

My brother bought a 261 pro saw some years back - very nice, and definitely seems lighter and somewhat more powerful than my 029. The standout feature for me, though, is the compression release for easier starting.

The other thing to do is keep active/exercising during the off-season.... as we get older (I'm 63) the muscle disappears faster if we don't use it.

 

[EdinLa]

I agree with prior posts on there not being one saw that fits all occasions.

A 72 cc saw with compression release starting comes very close to all your goals. ....I'm 69 and find that ease of starting is more important than saw weight. ...If saw weight becomes an issue, I use a lighter saw.

 

[smitty66]

I have a Poulan bow saw for sale.

 

[Hermio]

I am a few years older than you and have been clearing an acre of dense woods this past summer with maple, oak, and pine.
I have 20" Husqvarna so I have been doing similar work with similar equipment.
This isn't what you asked for but this may fix part your problem if you haven't used one before.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HY96EW8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

View attachment 720815

I can do it while on the bar, it is fast and accurate.
I keep a small vise mounted on a table to clamp the bar and it takes maybe 5 minutes.
I make about 4 strokes per tooth and it is as good or better than new.
I saw a noticeable difference in how much I could do in a day,

Others can help you pick out a chain saw but I would recommend getting this to help with fatique.
Hope this helps.

Get the Pferd version of that tool. They actually make it for Stihl but sell it for less under their own name. I guess orange plastic is more expensive than blue! (Similar situation with Logrite, who makes the Stihl-branded peaveys, etc.)

 

[Hermio]

To answer the original question of the thread, I highly recommend the Stihl MS500i. It is lighter than any other saw I know of that puts out 6.7 Hp. I find it less fatiguing to use than other saws I have owned. With an RS chain, it should cut around twice as fast as a Stihl MS271. I run a 20" bar, but it is usually sold with a 25", and can handle a 36". With the Pderd tool, it only takes about 5 min to sharpen a 20" chain, and that tool files down the rakers while sharpening the teeth. We have 80 acres of woods, and I put up about 6 cords of firewood per year. I also happen to be 68 years old, and I do work out with weights at the gym to stay in shape.

 

[OzarkChris]

I agree with most that has already been said. But one question comes to mind (that I haven't seen asked yet. Is your sawmill a chainsaw mill e.g., Alaska type? If so, you will need a good ripping chain.

If you are just bucking up into the length you want, I honestly don't understand why you would want anything bigger. A 26" bandsaw mill will, with quite a bit of effort (do you hear a chainsaw buzzing in the background for the off round bits of the log?), saw up a 25-26" Dia log with typical "lumber width" (or between guide width) of 20-22" (which means you cut a full 2" - or more - off each of the 4 sides). Also, when you start felling 26" trunks, be aware you will probably be looking at sharpening after every other cut or every 3rd cut (sorry, I'm old school and my experiences with carbide tipped chains have not been that great - think running into metal while felling/bucking, bye bye $200). Be aware that if you Don't have good curls from the cut wood coming out of the saw e.g., like chips coming out of a planer, NOT large sawdust, your blade is dull (dangerous) and is working much harder than it should be - maybe this is why you believe your current saw won't work for you.

I know many, many folk that "think" if the chain is still going around on the saw its fine and should only be sharpened once or twice a year.

The saw you have is more than enough to work on pines and probably enough to work on most native hardwoods - exceptions would be ultra hards like ironwood. Again though, only if you keep the chain sharp.

If, as you state, you are a newbie feller, please consider finding an experienced professional timberman (not just a tree trimmer), and see if they can help you out on technique - most will be happy to help out if they are any good. The advantage to this is that they will have local knowledge of the trees and things to watch out for.

As far as equipment, at the bare minimum let me suggest a few items. First, if you are planning on a full day's worth of felling/ bucking, consider buying several chains (I take 5 with me for hardwood work). With several chains you can make sure they are all sharp so you can change out in a few minutes, rather than losing momentum by stopping to take 20-45mins, or longer, to sharpen the attached chain.

Second, if you haven't already purchased felling wedges (plastic only!), buy at least 6. If you can find different widths, all the better. If you don't know what I'm talking about, ask the professional timberman. Finally, DO NOT skimp on safety gear, ear, eye & leg protection!

Oh, BTW, if you've never used a bandsaw blade sawmill (or any sawmill for that matter) that isn't hydraulic assist be sure to eat your Wheaties, you'll need it. Sawyers don't have large biceps, etc because they go to the gym!

Hope this helps!

 

[Hermio]

I agree with most that has already been said. But one question comes to mind (that I haven't seen asked yet. Is your sawmill a chainsaw mill e.g., Alaska type? If so, you will need a good ripping chain.

If you are just bucking up into the length you want, I honestly don't understand why you would want anything bigger. A 26" bandsaw mill will, with quite a bit of effort (do you hear a chainsaw buzzing in the background for the off round bits of the log?), saw up a 25-26" Dia log with typical "lumber width" (or between guide width) of 20-22" (which means you cut a full 2" - or more - off each of the 4 sides). Also, when you start felling 26" trunks, be aware you will probably be looking at sharpening after every other cut or every 3rd cut (sorry, I'm old school and my experiences with carbide tipped chains have not been that great - think running into metal while felling/bucking, bye bye $200). Be aware that if you Don't have good curls from the cut wood coming out of the saw e.g., like chips coming out of a planer, NOT large sawdust, your blade is dull (dangerous) and is working much harder than it should be - maybe this is why you believe your current saw won't work for you.

I know many, many folk that "think" if the chain is still going around on the saw its fine and should only be sharpened once or twice a year.

The saw you have is more than enough to work on pines and probably enough to work on most native hardwoods - exceptions would be ultra hards like ironwood. Again though, only if you keep the chain sharp.

If, as you state, you are a newbie feller, please consider finding an experienced professional timberman (not just a tree trimmer), and see if they can help you out on technique - most will be happy to help out if they are any good. The advantage to this is that they will have local knowledge of the trees and things to watch out for.

As far as equipment, at the bare minimum let me suggest a few items. First, if you are planning on a full day's worth of felling/ bucking, consider buying several chains (I take 5 with me for hardwood work). With several chains you can make sure they are all sharp so you can change out in a few minutes, rather than losing momentum by stopping to take 20-45mins, or longer, to sharpen the attached chain.

Second, if you haven't already purchased felling wedges (plastic only!), buy at least 6. If you can find different widths, all the better. If you don't know what I'm talking about, ask the professional timberman. Finally, DO NOT skimp on safety gear, ear, eye & leg protection!

Oh, BTW, if you've never used a bandsaw blade sawmill (or any sawmill for that matter) that isn't hydraulic assist be sure to eat your Wheaties, you'll need it. Sawyers don't have large biceps, etc because they go to the gym!

Hope this helps!

I don't think sharpening that often is necessary. I usually do it every 2nd or 3rd fuel fill-up, or when the cutting speed seems to have fallen off about 20%. I don't wait until it smokes or makes sawdust! With the Pferd tool, it takes less than 5 minutes to fully sharpen a 20" RS chain, and it is sharper and cuts faster after that than with a new chain or one ground with a grinding wheel, though I recommend getting it ground after 3-5 sharpenings by hand just to true-up or "joint" the chain so it cuts straight. I do run into some dirt because I skid the logs out for safety before bucking (less chance of accidents cutting in the field instead of the woods. But for sawmilling, you want to use a log arch or wash the dirt off before milling. Debarking might be a good idea if you can't get the dirt off.

 

[DutchInNZ]

I am a few years older than you and have been clearing an acre of dense woods this past summer with maple, oak, and pine.
I have 20" Husqvarna so I have been doing similar work with similar equipment.
This isn't what you asked for but this may fix part your problem if you haven't used one before.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HY96EW8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

View attachment 720815

I can do it while on the bar, it is fast and accurate.
I keep a small vise mounted on a table to clamp the bar and it takes maybe 5 minutes.
I make about 4 strokes per tooth and it is as good or better than new.
I saw a noticeable difference in how much I could do in a day,

Others can help you pick out a chain saw but I would recommend getting this to help with fatique.
Hope this helps.

Let me ask you guys something. Although it is not directly related to this specific subject, I see that so often. I am aware that in the USA this now is standard, but to non-USers (uhh, what about Canadians??) it is a lot harder to understand: why are you buying from Amazon and not from your local hardware store? Instead of supporting people around you, you made one big company monopolistic in everything, in practice to the extend that they are running your life for you, as you can not avoid to see by now. It is no problem to get the same prices locally, so? Personal service, too. Too much effort to go to town? You are killing yourself off.

 

[DutchInNZ]

I agree with most that has already been said. But one question comes to mind (that I haven't seen asked yet. Is your sawmill a chainsaw mill e.g., Alaska type? If so, you will need a good ripping chain.

If you are just bucking up into the length you want, I honestly don't understand why you would want anything bigger. A 26" bandsaw mill will, with quite a bit of effort (do you hear a chainsaw buzzing in the background for the off round bits of the log?), saw up a 25-26" Dia log with typical "lumber width" (or between guide width) of 20-22" (which means you cut a full 2" - or more - off each of the 4 sides). Also, when you start felling 26" trunks, be aware you will probably be looking at sharpening after every other cut or every 3rd cut (sorry, I'm old school and my experiences with carbide tipped chains have not been that great - think running into metal while felling/bucking, bye bye $200). Be aware that if you Don't have good curls from the cut wood coming out of the saw e.g., like chips coming out of a planer, NOT large sawdust, your blade is dull (dangerous) and is working much harder than it should be - maybe this is why you believe your current saw won't work for you.

I know many, many folk that "think" if the chain is still going around on the saw its fine and should only be sharpened once or twice a year.

The saw you have is more than enough to work on pines and probably enough to work on most native hardwoods - exceptions would be ultra hards like ironwood. Again though, only if you keep the chain sharp.

If, as you state, you are a newbie feller, please consider finding an experienced professional timberman (not just a tree trimmer), and see if they can help you out on technique - most will be happy to help out if they are any good. The advantage to this is that they will have local knowledge of the trees and things to watch out for.

As far as equipment, at the bare minimum let me suggest a few items. First, if you are planning on a full day's worth of felling/ bucking, consider buying several chains (I take 5 with me for hardwood work). With several chains you can make sure they are all sharp so you can change out in a few minutes, rather than losing momentum by stopping to take 20-45mins, or longer, to sharpen the attached chain.

Second, if you haven't already purchased felling wedges (plastic only!), buy at least 6. If you can find different widths, all the better. If you don't know what I'm talking about, ask the professional timberman. Finally, DO NOT skimp on safety gear, ear, eye & leg protection!

Oh, BTW, if you've never used a bandsaw blade sawmill (or any sawmill for that matter) that isn't hydraulic assist be sure to eat your Wheaties, you'll need it. Sawyers don't have large biceps, etc because they go to the gym!

Hope this helps!

Safety can not be pointed out too much. I would advice any beginner/inexperienced tree feller to go a day with a really experienced guy to have a look what it all is and what the obvious and hidden dangers are. It takes the scare for the unknown away, avoids beginner's mistakes and the increase of self-confidence helps a lot to make the things safer.

 

[dodge man]

I don’t think Stihl sells on Amazon, at least not the actual saws.

Chains? I wish I could point out the exact link but I think I saw the video on here. The guy tested a bunch of chains in a very scientific way. For example a carbide chain really wasn’t that great compared to others, I think it was actually the slowest cutting out of the box. In one of the tests he ran the saw in sand and dulled them all. The carbide one was the only one that still cut worth a darn. I remember Stihl chains were really good but maybe dulled a little easier.

 

[Root Cause]

Let me ask you guys something. Although it is not directly related to this specific subject, I see that so often. I am aware that in the USA this now is standard, but to non-USers (uhh, what about Canadians??) it is a lot harder to understand: why are you buying from Amazon and not from your local hardware store? Instead of supporting people around you, you made one big company monopolistic in everything, in practice to the extend that they are running your life for you, as you can not avoid to see by now. It is no problem to get the same prices locally, so? Personal service, too. Too much effort to go to town? You are killing yourself off.

I live near a small town that has few stores and most people within the city limits are probably at or below the poverty level.
Even Walmart tailors their goods to what sells.
The auto store carries the cheapest batteries and brake pads.

So I buy locally when I can and I would love to avoid Walmart and Amazon. But often we don't have the time or gas to drive 45 minutes one way to find out that they are out of stock or have a very limited stock to choose from.

Surviving local stores went online years ago and marketed themselves to keep the doors open. That just didn't happen around us.
As for pricing, Amazon or online is typically cheaper. If you count gas to and from the store, it is worse. We do understand your point, we have said it ourselves. We do support our local merchants and thank them for being there.

Back to chain saws. I have 1 store, it has 2 chain saws. Both bottom-end saws, a 16" and a 20". They carry 1 chain for my saw. It is $10 more than at Amazon and isn't the exact one I like.

 

[OzarkChris]

I don't think sharpening that often is necessary. I usually do it every 2nd or 3rd fuel fill-up, or when the cutting speed seems to have fallen off about 20%. I don't wait until it smokes or makes sawdust! With the Pferd tool, it takes less than 5 minutes to fully sharpen a 20" RS chain, and it is sharper and cuts faster after that than with a new chain or one ground with a grinding wheel, though I recommend getting it ground after 3-5 sharpenings by hand just to true-up or "joint" the chain so it cuts straight. I do run into some dirt because I skid the logs out for safety before bucking (less chance of accidents cutting in the field instead of the woods. But for sawmilling, you want to use a log arch or wash the dirt off before milling. Debarking might be a good idea if you can't get the dirt off.

I tend to agree with you, but for new folks, I've seen them take 45+ mins to sharpen a 20". As far as when to change/sharpen, I've found that it really depends on the trees you have. Hard pitch trees can dull a chain fast & my experience w/lob-lollies has been (depending on the time of year and diameter) that they can dull up a chain quite quickly. I'd rather have an extra chain and not need it, rather than wishing I had one more to finish up so I wouldn't have to sharpen the chain. At home I put it in my vise and have a good system (just a round chain file, but the technique is my system) that gets the gully as well as the cutting pitch I like.

Please don't take this as a slam against your method, I just prefer changing out a chain (for me 30-45 seconds) rather than sharpening on the saw.

 

[paultxsa]

I'm 58 years old and I'm in decent but not excellent physical condition. Average strength I would say.

I am not a chainsaw guy. In other words, I've been using decent consumer Stihl chainsaws all my life but I don't know anything about cc's, chain types, tuning, modding etc etc. Primary use has been yard and property cleanup as well as cutting firewood. I have the proper safety gear and a solid understanding of basic chainsaw safety.

But now I have ordered a saw mill. It should be here in a few weeks. It can handle up to 26" diameter trees.

My primary saw is a Stihl Farm Boss with a 20" bar. I don't remember which one but it is about 3 years old, bought new and was the larger of the Farm Boss saws. In my mind I'm thinking 350 but it might be a 271. I don't even know if the Farm Boss came in a 350. Anyway, it is a decent saw. I suspect it is a consumer level saw with a "farm" designation for marketing.

This weekend I felled several pines that were around 12 inches in diameter. The Farm Boss was okay but not great. I also recently cut up a much larger oak blow down (probably 25ish diameter) and the Farm Boss struggled a lot.

So I am going to be felling larger trees than 12" pines in the near future. My son-in-law will be there most of the time (we'll own the saw mill together). He has a big tuned pro-level Stihl. He has a good bit of felling experience. But I feel like I need a bigger saw for myself. I'm thinking 25-28" bar.

I'm not really looking for brand recommendations.

What I need to know is what I can get for this job that is: 1) Reasonably light. (Again, I'm 58). 2) Appropriately powered for cutting down large but not huge trees. 3) Reasonably safe for my age and experience and 4) What type of chain for my age and experience from a safety vs efficiency standpoint.

Any basic advice much appreciated.

P.S.: Not too interested in modding or tuning a saw.

So, I am a 57 yo guy, and have a Stihl ms088 that I use for my 'Alaskan-type' Mill and for cutting.
I use a smaller bar for cutting with cutting chain and as long as I need bar with rip chain when I am milling. Yeah, it's a little heavy but it does the job like nothing else.
If you already have other smaller saws, use them for small wood, and use a big gun for slabbing. You'll never regret it.

 

[Hermio]

Safety can not be pointed out too much. I would advice any beginner/inexperienced tree feller to go a day with a really experienced guy to have a look what it all is and what the obvious and hidden dangers are. It takes the scare for the unknown away, avoids beginner's mistakes and the increase of self-confidence helps a lot to make the things safer.

Let me ask you guys something. Although it is not directly related to this specific subject, I see that so often. I am aware that in the USA this now is standard, but to non-USers (uhh, what about Canadians??) it is a lot harder to understand: why are you buying from Amazon and not from your local hardware store? Instead of supporting people around you, you made one big company monopolistic in everything, in practice to the extend that they are running your life for you, as you can not avoid to see by now. It is no problem to get the same prices locally, so? Personal service, too. Too much effort to go to town? You are killing yourself off.

A lot of the stuff I buy on Amazon is not available at my local stores. When it is available, usually, but not always, it is about 20% higher at the local stores. And it costs me $0.60/mile to go get it driving my truck, unless I combine several trips. I do buy Stihl chain usually from my local dealer, but last time I did not because he was double Amazon's price. I think local stores may be killing themselves off by price gouging. I am not killing myself off. I am a consultant with global customers and global competitors. I win jobs not by being cheaper but by being better at what I do. That works for almost any business.

 

[CFar45]

I found myself recently shopping for a new saw powerful enough to do similar duty, yet not too heavy… so became very conscious of the power:weight ratio. This is one area where the “pro” saws shine over the farm/homeowner saws. I’m not particularly married to any one brand, but if the factory specs are to be trusted, Stihl seems to lead the power:weight category in the 60-70cc range. This seems the likely range you’ll land in. My search lead me to the Stihl ms400. This saw has some innovations focused on maximizing power:weight. It’s 66cc with a magnesium cylinder to decrease weight. They also come with the “light” bar. The ms500i also has a great power:weight, but is pricey(er) and is more saw than I need/want. BTW, Stihl website only lists up to 20” bar on ms400, however all dealers I spoke with have 25” as an option from factory (and most say you could do a 28”) I only wanted a 20” but liked the option of 25” if needed. I think the lighter bars make a noticeable difference in the fatigue factor outside of bucking logs.

I questioned “how heavy is too heavy” and learned that everyone’s comfort level is different. The only reference I had were the saws that I’d run. I knew I didn’t want to go much heavier than the saw I was replacing (about 12.4 lbs power head) Your farm boss, if a 271, is listed at 12.3 lbs. Only you know how you feel after using it for a day, how long you expect to cut in a day and how much more weight you might be comfortable with. Faster cuts may mean less time behind the saw, which is a factor, but you still need to raise/lift/carry the saw just as many times to do the same job. At 12.8 lbs the 400 produces 5.4 hp compared to the farm boss at 3.49hp. That’s a significant jump in power with little weight gain. The 500i is 79cc (I think), significantly heavier at 13.9 lbs, but puts out 6.7 hp. For excellent power:weight. You mention “reasonably light”. This is different for all of us and for me the 500 was too much, too heavy. These two saws have very good (some of the best from my research?) power:weight off the shelf. If you want lighter than what you currently have, but still more powerful, take a look at the ms261.
Farm boss 271 3.49/12.3 = 0.284
MS261 4.0/10.8 = 0.370
MS400 5.4/12.8 = 0.422
MS500i 6.7/13.9 = 0.482

 

[lectro88]

My advice on sharpening.
throw away the fancy gigs and learn how to use the appropriate size round file.
I have seen competing guys run a flat file cornered.
but the fancy gadgets fail and break.
There is no replacement for plain old fashioned skill.
And you don’t need power in the woods with just a round file and nice handle.

2nd.
skip and run away from skip tooth chains.
I made a half of a cut that came on my new husky and hung that chain up in the basement.

it cut like a covered wagon with square wheels. On a bouldered road..
beating and chattering.
would vibrate every loc-tite screw loose.

best luck

 

[Mkoz]

Great bunch of advice here. I'm also a Stihl guy. They always start. I have 5 saw currently all the way to a 362 with 25" bar. As a 54 yo weekend guy the 362 is getting a bit too heavy for me. I turn to my 261 with a chipper chain. It has a 16" bar which is a bit short but the power is amazing with a little bar. Maybe a 261 with 18" would be better for you. The 261 is the smallest pro model for Stihl. Good luck.