*** Holy cow, long post /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif ***
Hi all - just a few loose ends I wanted to tie up. The bulk of this post is highlights from some of the PM's I sent to Rob on some various Stihl and Husky models. Maybe this will help shed some light on the never-ending "Stihl vs. Husky" debate (which in a way seems like trying to decide between your left arm and your right arm. I happen to be right-handed, so I guess I prefer my right arm, but I have many good things to say about left arm as well).
<font color="blue">I'm convinced from the feedback that Husky will be my best all around choice regardless of which model I end up with. </font> [I convinced Rob otherwise I guess].
<font color="blue"> I will get a Husky... just don't know which model now that I've gotten so much information on them. </font> [How do you like your Stihl?] /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
<font color="blue">Here in northwest Oregon, Stihl is what 90% or more of the loggers use. I think that says all you need to know. </font> Go get 'em!
<font color="blue"> In another comparison, I found that the Stihl was quite a bit more expensive than the comparable Husky. Why is that? Is it that much better or what? </font> I think you pretty much get what you pay for in this world.
<font color="blue"> Between Stihl and Husky, I've always been a Stihl man and with the luck I've had with them, probably always will be. </font> [I don't remember writing this].
<font color="blue">I was concerned, before I tried it, that the weight of a "pro" saw would be more than I could handle comfortably after years of using a small Homelite. But I've been very comfortable with the 357XP for 3-4hours at a stretch. </font> [As I've said elsewhere, "pro" saws are lighter (cc for cc) than "non-pro" saws due to more expensive, lighter- weight components. You don't have to be a "pro" to warrant owning a pro saw. They are just as easy, if not easier, to use, and last much longer.
OK, here's what I wrote to Rob about saws - just thought I'd share it, in the hopes it helps someone out there (plus Rob said it was OK). Thanks Rob.
PM #1
Hope you don't mind me butting in, just wanted to throw in $.02 worth. To be right up front, I'm a Stihl guy, but I'm not about to slam Huskys. They only have two crappy saws that I know of, the discontinued 272 (disaster) and the 335/345 climbing saw (junk). All the rest are very, very good as far as I know.
That said, Stihls are a little more expensive because I think more goes into them. They don't charge more just to be non-competitive on price. At 52 cc., you're right in between the MS260 (026) Pro and the MS361 Pro. The 036 Pro that it replaced was an AWESOME saw, and I have every reason to believe that the 361 is every bit as good, if not better. If you get a Husky, I'd urge you to get a pro model, they last longer and have a better power-to-weight ratio.
I'd also urge you to resist the temptation to go to a bar longer than 18" [on a saw this size]. A longer bar will screw up the balance, and how often do you have to fell a tree larger than 3' in diameter? If you ever to have to cut bigger stuff, maybe get a 24" bar and semi-skip chain, which is easier for a given saw to "pull".
Also, think about getting NON-safety, full-chisel chain,
[please don't do this if you're not comfortable doing it, and if you do, please don't sue me if you weigh all the factors, decide for yourself to do it, and then get hurt]
and take the rakers down right away, they're almost always way too high right out of the box. (Should be .025", and out of the box they're often closer to .012"). Maybe check out some of my posts in "starting a stihl chain saw", I have some sharpening tips in there.
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PM #2
Man, tough choice on the Husky. I'd rule out the 455 and the 350, just not quite enough power if you want this to be your "big" saw. That pretty much leaves the 359. The saw I'd recommend, if not for the $$, is the 357XP, or the 357XPG (heated handles), but they're $140 and $205 more than the 359, respectively. GREAT specs though - 13% more power from an engine with 10% less displacement, and a little higher revving. I love the 357, but - for what i think you're going to need, the 359 sounds totally excellent.
Sometimes you have to read between the lines when reading specs, and from what I gather, the 359 might make up for in lower-end torque what it's lacking in raw HP, and the website talks about the 359 having a wide power band for more torque at less-than-full throttle. I usually cut at full throttle anyway, but for all-around use the 359 sounds really good.
Plus you can get it with 3/8 chain, which I would definitely recommend over the optional .325. Don't let them talk you into safety chain, you don't need it. You can't do plunge cuts with safety chain, it has more mass and therefore less "zip", and it's a pain to sharpen. Hold onto the saw with a firm grip and you'll be fine. Play around with the tip of the bar to get used to kickback, so you won't fear it, but be sure to respect it.
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PM #3
Well ..... I just spent about an hour on Arboristsite.com, and just got a bunch of reminders about why I am a Stihl guy. Again, I'm not slamming Huskies, it's just that after reading about 100 posts about the 359, 365, 357XP, and then the Stihl MS361, it all came back to me.
Stihls are smooth, quiet, incredibly well-built, nearly trouble-free, and just plain great. I read one post about the 357 going back to the dealer 3 times for problems with the oiler, and other posts that just had me hearing a Husky running. They've got plenty of snot, but they just have this annoying raspy sound to them. I guess my biggest knock against them is simply that they are not Stihls. It is just very, very hard to beat German engineering.
There were many good things said about the 359, 365 and 357. The 365 seems to have a more forgiving power band, harder to stall at lower speeds. Again, not a big deal, but a little easier to use than the racehorse 357. The 365 is about a pound heavier than the 357 (and the 361), and that will definitely add to user fatigue, thereby reducing safety.
It's just that when I put these four saws head to head (studying the he$$ out of the specs), the MS361 is the clear winner. It (and its predecessors the MS360 and 036) are my "go-to" recommendation for the type of serious "homeowner" woodcutting you have in mind.. You might very well own that saw for the rest of your life, and you would enjoy every minute of it. It's just a beautiful saw.
I saw one online for $539. My recommendation is that you buy one and never look back. If you don't like it, I will buy it from you for what you paid for it.
Whatever saw you get, I'll help you get up to speed on sharpening it. The brand new chain will cut like crap until you tune it, and it's super easy to do. I encourage you to get some nice new chain files, some raker files, and those two gizmos in the "starting a stihl" thread. Please, NEVER have you chain sharpened on a grinder.
Sorry for the curveball, but this is my best advice, and I'd be doing you a disservice by telling you anything different. And as usual: "I'm not saying Stihls [Kubotas] are excellent because I have one - it's the other way around".
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PM #4
I just remembered a few more things I wanted to tell you about.
From what I read last night, one very frequent problem with the Huskies is the early demise of the automatic compression release valve. Not a big deal, but the consensus is that it will quickly crap out and need to be replaced with the manual, push-button type found on the Stihls.
Next, I forgot to mention the importance of having an inboard clutch vs. an outboard one. An outboard clutch makes drive sprocket changes more difficult, and the sprocket needs changing frequently, every 2 chains or so in my experience. Many Huskies uses an outboard clutch, including my 242. (I had, and loved, a Husky 242 that I used for climbing, when I was into bigger stuff than my Stihl MS200T or 191T could handle). This goes to my observation that no one brand is the absolute best at everything - the 242 was the smallest pro model Husky at the time, and revved at 15,500 I believe. (I actually ran it at 14,500, "richening" up the air/fuel ratio just a little to increase the engine life). It was a little screamer though, and with an 18" bar, it was incredibly useful as a climbing saw.
This brings me to the last point though. My 242, and the other Husky I owned, the disastrous 272, just didn't hold up as well as every Stihl I've ever owned. I just had way more problems with dead coils, broken switches, melted plastic covers, stripped screws, and sometimes-fussy starting. The Stihl Intellicarb is amazing, those saws just plain run great.
Lastly, an analogy that I've used for years. Huskies are like Saabs - both made in Sweden, very sophisticated, and very good machines, but maybe just a little finnicky, like a thoroughbred racehorse. But Stihls are like Mercedes. Solid, no nonsense, built to last, with impeccable engineering and just astonishingly reliable. More like a quarterhorse, or maybe Roy Rogers' "Trigger". There when you need him.
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PM #5
I keep coming back to the MS361, no matter how long I look at all the variables. Considering how long you're going to have this saw, might as well make it a good one. If you spend a little more money up front, you will soon forget about that - but the saw will be with you for years and years.
I just keep coming back to the fact that Stihls are just incredibly well made. I keep forgetting that you've never owned one, so you don't know how excellent the are. It really is just like the Mercedes, they're just that good.
The 365 is almost a pound heavier than the 361, and that's a lot. Add in the reliability, smoothness, quietness and overall design of the two saws and it's no contest really. That is why Stihls cost more, in my opinion. Not so Stihl can be at a competitive disadvantage on price, but rather, because you get more saw.
The 361/360/036 is one of my three all-time favorite saws, along with the 460/046 and the 660/066. The 66 (066 Magnum) I guess is my all-time favorite, because it kicks so much [butt]. My logger friend Bryan uses nothing but the 460, just because the 660 is a little too heavy to carry around all day. The 460 is an awesome saw for felling. But the 361/360 is the best limbing/bucking/utility saw I think there is, period. [VERY honorable mention to the Husky 357XP, 346XP, Stihl MS260, Stihl "028/9" class, and Jonsereds. Jonsereds are BEAUTIFUL saws.] As I said, it's what I always recommend for uses like you describe. The 460 is a big saw; the 660 is a really big saw; the 260 is a smallish saw; and the 361 is the "perfect" size for your needs. Easy to handle, not too heavy, kicks lots of [butt] - in short, it's just right for you. And it's a Stihl. Once/if you run it, I think you'll see what I mean.
As far as the Stihl MS310 goes - well first let me say that I don't think there are any crappy Stihl saws. To my knowledge, they've never had an actual "lemon", with the possible exception of the MS191T arborist saw which has been replaced by the very capable MS192T.
When you compare the Stihl MS310 to the MS361 - well, it's no contest really. I don't believe the 310 has the same engine internals that the "pro" saws have. It's heavier, and won't last as long. It's basically a homeowner saw. Hard to explain, but it's kind of like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. They'll both get you around, but ......
OK, I just got off the phone with my friend Bryan. I knew what he would say, but just for the record - he says exactly the same thing, only more emphatically. First off, get a Stihl. I reminded him of how Huskies sound, and his comment was "yeah - they sound just the same way that they're built". Again, there is a reason Stihls cost more.
His favorite Stihl is the 440, though as I said he uses a 460 for logging because he needs the extra power. He has always loved the MS360/036/MS361. His words: "No comparison whatsover" between the 310 and 361. I agree. We just reminisced about some of the expolits of the "big dog", the 066/MS660 Magnum. Now THAT is a saw. But I digress.
I'd just say that if you want to experience an unbelievable saw, try to get your hands on a 361. If that means selling your 310, then by all means, sell it. Maybe try it out for a while so you can see the difference when you get the 361. Again, it's not that the 361 is going to cut twice as fast as the 310 - it will just last twice as long, be lighter, have more power, and therefore cut faster with less operator fatigue. Well worth an additional 60 bucks.
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OK, that's it. Hope this was more of a help than an annoyance, and as always, I welcome any input and opinions. (I don't know everything, I just come across that way). /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Peace, John
