Trespasser.....what would you do?

Larry Caldwell · Nov 18, 2021

Richard said:
How long do I wait for (what could be abandoned property) for the owner to come back to get it?

Ask around, or google your state laws on abandoned property. It's probably well established in law. In my state, you have to post a public notice and wait 30 days, but that doesn't tell you squat about your state.

dmccarty · Nov 18, 2021

Regarding landowner liability.

Years ago when we were in the process of buying land, I was reading the NC Extension office website, which is a treasure trove of information, and found a paper about land owner liability. The best thing a land owner could do was to post the land since it is all but impossible to sue for injuries that occurred during a criminal act. The other end of the liability spectrum was to take payment for someone using your land. That opened the liability door.

Pretty sure in recent years, a law has been passed to protect land owners who allow people to walk and maybe hunt or fish the land but I don't want people on our place.

In the early days of TBN, one of the early members knew of a court case in SC, if I remember right, where a land owner was sued when a couple rode horses onto some land, the horse stepped into a stump hole, and the rider was thrown and hurt. Not sure how the court case ended but just getting sued is punishment enough.

Later,
Dan

bmaverick · Nov 18, 2021

Richard said:
Been busy at work....first chance to sit down and see I have pages to catch up on.

I found this interesting. Earlier (in this thread) I think I recall someone saying that the land has been (or looked) abandoned for 30 years... so who can blame someone for thinking they could perhaps hunt/trespass there....

Well... so we walked the land and found (thus far) two tree stands. How do I know how long they've been there? Maybe they've been abandoned for 10 years!??

How long do I wait for (what could be abandoned property) for the owner to come back to get it? How long do I wait for their abandoned tires, 5-gallon buckets to be picked up by the rightful owners who simply placed them there until they could return to get them? We all know that's simply discarded trash.

Seems to me you can't have it both ways.... if someone has the 'right' (I use that term loosely) to traipse on property that isn't theirs because they can't tell it's been visited (we've been there a number of times now and other than the signs we have up and the painted trees, there's STILL no way to tell that we've ever been there.....so what would their sign be that it's abandoned or not?)

No, one can't have it both ways where someone can traipse all over land that isn't theirs, then, the SAME person leaves some of their property..... and have a hissy fit when someone ELSE comes along and finds their abandoned property.

How can they be cited for trespassing if it's abandoned? How can "I" be cited for theft if what I found, was abandoned?

To make another comment about a previous thing someone wrote.... we ALSO have issues with trespassors here, on our local farm.

We're on/in hills and surrounded by a couple hundred acres of TVA land so someone IS allowed to hunt/hike/whatever on TVA land. We share a border with them that is probably over a mile in length. People trespass all the time and play the ignorant card. "Oh, we didn't know this was private property.... (in spite that they walked through mowed fields to get to the place where they were caught.... using the cut field as their target zone)

I've heard it all. If someone wants to hunt/hike/other around here, I really don't care. Just be respectful about property that isn't yours. (like don't leave your gutted deer carcas at the base of our driveway for us to drive by when you could have instead, left it in the woods or elsewhere)

We've had issues with people trespassing (mostly hunters). Had a big meeting one morning with TVA, Sheriff, Wildlife Resources.... all down at the base of our driveway. It was caused because of the 12-15 trucks that lined our driveway on first day of open season. Had I had a car bigger than my Miata at the time, I would have barely been able to get out to go to work. So they marked the area no parking AND they (TVA) had a couple parking areas built for people/hunters/hikers...

During this meeting, the Wildlife guy got about 12 inches from my face and in a raised voice was yelling at me that I'm anti-hunter, anti-hunting and all of this is to impede the hunters who wanted to come out here to hunt since I was so against hunting. He was so exasperated (or realized he made such an azz of himself) he then got into his vehicle and left.

It was very ironic when literally 5 minutes later (they could have passed on the road) a vehicle came out.... was NOT a family member.... and drove onto the property. He was someone who was coming out to hunt because he had permission. His arrival though 5 minutes late, poetically showed those who were still here that we can't be anti-hunting if we are allowing hunters onto the property.... gee....maybe this really WAS about simply keeping the roads passable.

2019 Tennessee Code :: Title 39 - Criminal Offenses :: Chapter 14 - Offenses Against Property :: Part 4 - Burglary and Related Offenses :: § 39-14-405. Criminal trespass.

Justia Free Databases of U.S. Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Tennesseans welcome purple paint as replacement for 'no trespassing' signs

Property owners in Dickson County are using purple paint Wednesday to keep trespassers off their properties.As of July 1, Tennessee property owners can use purple spray paint on trees, posts and fences to keep people off their land.The new law says proper

fox17.com

With florescent purple paint on Tee posts, the law allows you to place them at a nice distance apart. In my state, it has to be florescent because of ATVs and snowmobiles that are used at night time to avoid trespassing.

RUST-OLEUM 1869838 Fluorescent Purple Marking - Spray Paints - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

lowes, Home Depot, ACE Hardware, etc all carry this.

Why is this law helpful to land owners? It's not just the criminal trespass, it also prevents those who trespass from suing you for injuries on the property or damage to their equipment, etc. It also protects you from having liens placed on your own home from those civil lawsuits too. Each state has it's wording for the purple posts, I posted the TN law here for reference as you're in Knoxville.

Your signs can be taken down, purple paint is hard to remove when it's on places hard to reach.

Richard · Nov 18, 2021

Larry Caldwell said:
Ask around, or google your state laws on abandoned property. It's probably well established in law. In my state, you have to post a public notice and wait 30 days, but that doesn't tell you squat about your state.

That's part of my point.

If, for example, "I" have to post it...and wait 30 days (I'm just rolling with that, I have no clue if it's right/wrong or indifferent)

Anyway, then it would seem the trespasser should ALSO then have to post a public notice and wait 30 days.

We all know that trespassers aren't going to do that.... so I'm back to my logic of what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

Richard · Nov 18, 2021

bmaverick said:
Why is this law helpful to land owners? It's not just the criminal trespass, it also prevents those who trespass from suing you for injuries on the property or damage to their equipment, etc. It also protects you from having liens placed on your own home from those civil lawsuits too. Each state has it's wording for the purple posts, I posted the TN law here for reference as you're in Knoxville.

Your signs can be taken down, purple paint is hard to remove when it's on places hard to reach.

Much appreciated!!

I happened to go to Home Depot yesterday to get a bigger nail magnet (to roll over the pavement there and pick up the nails) They didn't have what I was thinking of, so I was leaving.....and then remembered the PAINT!!!

Went back to the paint department. They had very little in the way of purple paint on the shelves....but I finally found some. I picked up ALL their cans of purple (I think it was florescent but it's still in the bag in my car) I ALSO picked up about six cans of florescent orange paint. I specifically called TN Wildlife and the gal there said they had a memo that it didn't HAVE to be purple.... I didn't think I could find purple paint (and being darker seems to me it would be more difficult to see, especially if dark outside???)

So I got the idea....get both, PAINT both now the bright orange will be easily seen and if they look closer they'll see the purple.

Decided to go that route because I don't want the local officer to be able to say "Sorry Richard, regulations say it has to be purple..... so your orange doesn't work"

"But Sally at your office said....."
"I've never seen the flyer you say she mentioned"

Nope....not going to let that happen so I'll use both! This also allows me to paint many more trees. What I've discovered over the years here of the trespassers (I used to block their entry point "with a boulder" is that they'll MOVE the boulder and continue on.....so I put TWO down....they moved them.... so finally I put about TEN down (I've got my backhoe to bring pretty big rocks)

I'm counting on them being energetic enough to move 1-3 boulders, but NOT to move a dozen.....they just move on. I count on them being too lazy to do that and so far, have been correct.

If I paint the minimum trees, they'll cut it down, burn it, ignore it.... but if I've got a near wall of paint, meaning lines on trees every 20-30 feet instead of every 100 feet, it's a lot more work for them to cut all the trees down....so now they either go elsewhere or, clearly break the law and make their way in. (sheriff & Wildlife are spread so thin here they'd not be able to catch them.....which is unfortunate)

MossRoad · Nov 18, 2021

TheMan419 said:
I assume it is like Keller and Keller?

Tell em You Mean Business!!

MossRoad · Nov 18, 2021

It's gonna be a lot more work for you to paint all those trees than it would have been to have left a note on the tree in a zip-lock bag letting them know they were on private land and they can pick up their tree stand at either your place or the local police department. Then they wouldn't be out any bucks. Now, you may have ticked them off. If you don't get more damage and vandalism, I'd be surprised.

Jstpssng · Nov 18, 2021

oosik said:
This time of the year - I hear shots any time of the DAY. It's deer season for the muzzle loaders. Better NOT hear anything at night.

About 25 years ago when I had my first dog, I left her tied out (with water) when I left home to hunt for a few hours and didn't make it back for 8 hours. By then she was long gone... I didn't realize at the time what a Houdini she would turn out to be. She came to gunshots so at 9:00 that night I was driving the woods road a mile behind my house touching off my .357. I eventually found her... she had gone across the road to the neighbor's who weren't home; gone up on the second floor balcony and couldn't get back down. (She didn't mind going up them but didn't like going back down.

The next day I was at the local general store and found out that the warden service had been in asking who might have been out shooting the night before. I know nothing, Noth-thing!

bmaverick · Nov 18, 2021

Richard said:
Much appreciated!!

I happened to go to Home Depot yesterday to get a bigger nail magnet (to roll over the pavement there and pick up the nails) They didn't have what I was thinking of, so I was leaving.....and then remembered the PAINT!!!

Went back to the paint department. They had very little in the way of purple paint on the shelves....but I finally found some. I picked up ALL their cans of purple (I think it was florescent but it's still in the bag in my car) I ALSO picked up about six cans of florescent orange paint. I specifically called TN Wildlife and the gal there said they had a memo that it didn't HAVE to be purple.... I didn't think I could find purple paint (and being darker seems to me it would be more difficult to see, especially if dark outside???)

So I got the idea....get both, PAINT both now the bright orange will be easily seen and if they look closer they'll see the purple.

Decided to go that route because I don't want the local officer to be able to say "Sorry Richard, regulations say it has to be purple..... so your orange doesn't work"

"But Sally at your office said....."
"I've never seen the flyer you say she mentioned"

Nope....not going to let that happen so I'll use both! This also allows me to paint many more trees. What I've discovered over the years here of the trespassers (I used to block their entry point "with a boulder" is that they'll MOVE the boulder and continue on.....so I put TWO down....they moved them.... so finally I put about TEN down (I've got my backhoe to bring pretty big rocks)

I'm counting on them being energetic enough to move 1-3 boulders, but NOT to move a dozen.....they just move on. I count on them being too lazy to do that and so far, have been correct.

If I paint the minimum trees, they'll cut it down, burn it, ignore it.... but if I've got a near wall of paint, meaning lines on trees every 20-30 feet instead of every 100 feet, it's a lot more work for them to cut all the trees down....so now they either go elsewhere or, clearly break the law and make their way in. (sheriff & Wildlife are spread so thin here they'd not be able to catch them.....which is unfortunate)

Long as you got the paint to PROVE it was marked, then ANY liability falls on the trespassers and not the land owner(s). After getting much of that painted, and by the roadway, snap a few pixs to ensure that YES, the property was marked on 'this-date'. The evidence will be hard to disprove.

Not being sued for all your life savings and then some using the purple paint law is to your advantage. If they are drunk in a tree stand and fall from the tree, breaking a leg, neck, arm, head, etc or even die, land owner(s) will not be held accountable for the trespassers. Even their relatives can't touch you either by law suits.

Jstpssng · Nov 18, 2021

bmaverick said:
Long as you got the paint to PROVE it was marked, then ANY liability falls on the trespassers and not the land owner(s). After getting much of that painted, and by the roadway, snap a few pixs to ensure that YES, the property was marked on 'this-date'. The evidence will be hard to disprove.

Not being sued for all your life savings and then some using the purple paint law is to your advantage. If they are drunk in a tree stand and fall from the tree, breaking a leg, neck, arm, head, etc or even die, land owner(s) will not be held accountable for the trespassers. Even their relatives can't touch you either by law suits.

It's pretty sad that people are so scared of being sued... especially when there are laws to protect them.
Here is a summary of the statute in the OP's state...

70-7-102. Landowner’s duty of care.

(a) The landowner, lessee, occupant, or any person in control of land or premises owes no duty of care to keep such land or premises safe for entry or use by others for such recreational activities as hunting, fishing, trapping, camping, water sports, white water rafting, canoeing, hiking, sightseeing, animal riding, bird watching, dog training, boating, caving, fruit and vegetable picking for the participant’s own use, nature and historical studies and research, rock climbing, skeet and trap shooting, skiing, off-road vehicle riding, and cutting or removing wood for the participant’s own use, nor shall such landowner be required to give any warning of hazardous conditions, uses of, structures, or activities on such land or premises to any person entering on such land or premises for such purposes, except as provided in § 70-7-104.

(b) The landowner, lessee, occupant, or any person in control of land or premises owes no duty of care to keep such land or premises safe for entry or use by others for recreational noncommercial aircraft operations or recreational noncommercial ultra light vehicle operations on private airstrips except as to known hazards or defects and except as provided in § 70-7-104.

You can read more here;

https://recreation-law.com/2014/07/19/tennessee-recreational-use-statute/