X330R deck belt

[dadohead]

Wow... you two need to chill.

I am just giving you the background into tractor design and production because you clearly have no clue. There is no 'motivation' to use only 'special' parts. JD is no different than Ford, GM, or Toro in this regard.

In my 30 years at JD, I only had to design a few special sheaves (to drive brand new mower decks to the proper tip speed comes to mind). JD has many hundreds sheaves/idlers in their system ranging from 2" to 20" dia. Every sheave I found was the typical 38 deg 'standard' angle. The belts in the system were HA, HB, HC, etc with the typical 40 deg 'standard' angle. Like any OEM, you cannot spend $60M+ to design, build, and test a tractor program only to find out that the 'standard' belt you purchased from "Tractor World" has changed materials without your knowledge. To maintain design integrity, you work with handpicked suppliers and own the tooling for each part... this is no different than any other OEM.

As you have pointed out, you have successfully strung generic belts around your JD drive and it worked great... sounds 'standard' to me. Quit bitching.

 

[tomplum]

Wow... you two need to chill.

I am just giving you the background into tractor design and production because you clearly have no clue. There is no 'motivation' to use only 'special' parts. JD is no different than Ford, GM, or Toro in this regard.

In my 30 years at JD, I only had to design a few special sheaves (to drive brand new mower decks to the proper tip speed comes to mind). JD has many hundreds sheaves/idlers in their system ranging from 2" to 20" dia. Every sheave I found was the typical 38 deg 'standard' angle. The belts in the system were HA, HB, HC, etc with the typical 40 deg 'standard' angle. Like any OEM, you cannot spend $60M+ to design, build, and test a tractor program only to find out that the 'standard' belt you purchased from "Tractor World" has changed materials without your knowledge. To maintain design integrity, you work with handpicked suppliers and own the tooling for each part... this is no different than any other OEM.

As you have pointed out, you have successfully strung generic belts around your JD drive and it worked great... sounds 'standard' to me. Quit bitching.

Oooh good! I finally have that engineer's name to curse... Kidding really. Deere decks generally make sense from an application and repair stand point. I could name a couple that I didn't care for. But then I remember MTD... Best to you. As I've said before, you must have had an interesting career. You ever want to start a thread on deck design, I'm in!

 

[dadohead]

Oooh good! I finally have that engineer's name to curse... Kidding really. Deere decks generally make sense from an application and repair stand point. I could name a couple that I didn't care for. But then I remember MTD... Best to you. As I've said before, you must have had an interesting career. You ever want to start a thread on deck design, I'm in!

Do I sense mower deck frustration??? Ha! Thanks for the post! You have no idea... I've been close to leaving this site multiple times but your post reminds me that there are people here that understand the equipment they talk about.

Yes, Deere hasn't had the greatest reputation in decks... they know it too. I think it's because they are a tractor company first. Years back though, they hired away Simplicity's (best in class) top engineer and put him in charge of mowers. Great move because decks are really hard to design and super frustrating. Your post eludes to this as an owner. I had two stints as a 'deck head' over the years. Some of it was even good times! ;<) The OP writes about a belt for his X330R... I was plucked out of the deck group in '06 to be put solely in charge of that tractor! Back in the deck group, however, that mower left its engineer so mentally broken that he left Horicon vowing never to return!

Decks are a black art. We always tried to apply the latest engineering technology to improve the process: build expensive prototypes, ship them to wherever good grass is, test, test, test, and then repeat. I talked my boss (the Simplicity guy) into working with a top university who was having success modeling helicopter rotors for the government. We met and I sent him all of our models for a mower we knew a lot about (how it cut, strengths, weaknesses, etc). 3 months later we reconnected with the chairman of the department. He said "we analyze rotor blades for the government and have much success... your product is essentially THREE sets of rotor blades, covered with a shroud, AND you introduce mass! (grass)... Impossible!!!" We tried some of the suggestions he offered with terrible results. Sooooo, back to 'black art' method.

A thread on deck design? I jumped into a thread once talking about cut quality... killed the conversation faster than corn through a goose.

Dual Blades on Finish Mower

Gravely sells an accessory to "X" two mower blades on this type deck,, I have two blades on this machine, even though it is mostly used for rough cutting. The machine mulches the stuff I cut much finer,, and it makes this "bushhog" mow grass much finer. The Meg-Mo is exactly what you...

www.tractorbynet.com

I thought "Wow, don't go there again!" Anyway, thanks again for the post!

 

[tomplum]

Do I sense mower deck frustration??? Ha! Thanks for the post! You have no idea... I've been close to leaving this site multiple times but your post reminds me that there are people here that understand the equipment they talk about.

Yes, Deere hasn't had the greatest reputation in decks... they know it too. I think it's because they are a tractor company first. Years back though, they hired away Simplicity's (best in class) top engineer and put him in charge of mowers. Great move because decks are really hard to design and super frustrating. Your post eludes to this as an owner. I had two stints as a 'deck head' over the years. Some of it was even good times! ;<) The OP writes about a belt for his X330R... I was plucked out of the deck group in '06 to be put solely in charge of that tractor! Back in the deck group, however, that mower left its engineer so mentally broken that he left Horicon vowing never to return!

Decks are a black art. We always tried to apply the latest engineering technology to improve the process: build expensive prototypes, ship them to wherever good grass is, test, test, test, and then repeat. I talked my boss (the Simplicity guy) into working with a top university who was having success modeling helicopter rotors for the government. We met and I sent him all of our models for a mower we knew a lot about (how it cut, strengths, weaknesses, etc). 3 months later we reconnected with the chairman of the department. He said "we analyze rotor blades for the government and have much success... your product is essentially THREE sets of rotor blades, covered with a shroud, AND you introduce mass! (grass)... Impossible!!!" We tried some of the suggestions he offered with terrible results. Sooooo, back to 'black art' method.

A thread on deck design? I jumped into a thread once talking about cut quality... killed the conversation faster than corn through a goose.

Dual Blades on Finish Mower

Gravely sells an accessory to "X" two mower blades on this type deck,, I have two blades on this machine, even though it is mostly used for rough cutting. The machine mulches the stuff I cut much finer,, and it makes this "bushhog" mow grass much finer. The Meg-Mo is exactly what you...

www.tractorbynet.com

I thought "Wow, don't go there again!" Anyway, thanks again for the post!

Interesting story. We got glimpses of some of this being a Toro dealer. IE when there Recycler deck technology came out they would show us water tank tests and other illustrations of how the kickers and accelerators supposedly managed the grass. As a dealer, that was good info for both the sales side and techs who dealt with quality of cut issues. Still have the QOC manual. Been in the old Gilson plant and Tomah factory. Still remember a couple of demo days on new products. One where they had to bring snow in to demo the new CCR technology. Toro seemed to listen to dealer input when designing the XI series. Deere do much the same? Wisconsin was prime territory for the OPE industry. And geese... So no, you shouldn't go anywhere. You're a good ally to have on the forum.

 

[beenthere]

I was unhappy when Deere changed the 54" deck design from the "old" 54" to the newer 54C decks (early 2000 years). Came with my new JD X485. Couldn't mow worth 2cents compared to the older decks. My fix was to remove the 54C deck and store it on the shelf and just use the X485 for an extra lawn tractor.
Bought a JD 425 with 54" deck and put the MC519 cart on it for dedicated lawn cleanup, and a JD 455 with 54" deck for regular lawn mowing. Happy camper now.
Invited to a meeting with Horicon engineers through a dealer invitation and discussed the blowout problem with the 54C decks and the "fix" was to add a piece under the deck. Did very little and grass and leaves blew out ahead of the deck rather than the chute. On the 519 cart with the power flow, hardly could tell where the pass was through the leaves on the lawn. Left about 15%, compared to the old setup that close to zero left.
I chalked it up to Deere wanting a more robust look to the mower decks as they were thicker in depth compared to the older decks. I do know there are pressures to change up from old designs.

 

[Richard001]

I am just giving you the background into tractor design and production because you clearly have no clue.

So are you saying that you are the only engineer who ever had to use the corporate parts ?

Give the rest of us a break and trust me, I have a clue.

There is no 'motivation' to use only 'special' parts. JD is no different than Ford, GM, or Toro in this regard.

. JD has many hundreds sheaves/idlers in their system ranging from 2" to 20" dia. Every sheave I found was the typical 38 deg 'standard' angle. The belts in the system were HA, HB, HC, etc with the typical 40 deg 'standard' angle.

So now you are putting to rest the false claims that JD used special angles on their sheaves and belts, and that any "of the shelf" belt will work with the sheave from JD.

A lot of people will be glad to hear that.

Like any OEM, you cannot spend $60M+ to design, build, and test a tractor program only to find out that the 'standard' belt you purchased from "Tractor World" has changed materials without your knowledge. To maintain design integrity, you work with handpicked suppliers and own the tooling for each part... this is no different than any other OEM.

With this part of your post, I certainly do agree. Parts vendors have to be certified and verified on a regular bases.

Richard

 

[leonz]

I would like to comment and add my 2 cents and a rubber nickel.

Ten years later I have had no explanation for why JD eliminated the
single stage snow thrower from its inventory.

In reference I purchased an LA115 with a 44 inch mower deck and the
44 inch snow blower in good faith-bad purchase and even worse dealer.

I purchased from a nearby dealer ate belts and chutes every year and the
special V belts and chute cost me an average of $350.00+ every year.
Added to the fact that I spent 4 hours replacing the drive and driven belts
every year rather than have the dealer do it as they were 40 miles away.

Neither attachment would work with a non JD V belt; in reference I tried to
use Gates A116 V belts as a replacement and the snow blower worked for a
few minutes and then tore the V belt up.

It is bad enough the Dealer sent the snow blower to me without all the parts
installed. I received a JD service bulletin from a friend at another JD dealership
from whom I bought the new E100 from last year stating that a large number of
JD snow blowers were shipped short of parts.

I was advised not to buy a new snow blower for the E100 as the quality of
workmanship for the 44 inch snow blower attachment did not change.

It would be so simple to use a single stage on these machines even with the
vertical crank engines by modifying the belt drive under the tractor with V pulleys,
snubber pulleys and a right angle 1 to 1 bevel gearbox to drive the cross shaft for
the snow blower rotor.

To purchase a single stage tractor and mower now would require investing in a
grasshopper mower which was much more in expense than I could manage.

If I could have purchased a series 1 JD sub compact and a rear mount 2 stage
snow blower I would have but it was not possible.

The 44 inch snow blower is going to the scrap yard on Monday as no one wants it even for
a project snow blower to mount an engine on it and mount it on the rear of the
tractor frame.