Kioti LB2204 with KL122 Loader Proportioning Valve Issue

[Dave M7040]

And so who is "him" that's so knowledgeable?

a former Kubota mechanic. I know him and am offering the owner some assurance that advice from this person should carry significant weight.

Dave M040

 

[Harry in Ky]

I see. I guess I was a bit confused because after reading all the posts on this thread I didn't see where his advice entered in. Maybe I missed it.

And maybe I just got the impression that many of those who post on this (or perhaps any) forum are mostly inexperienced, unqualified, or their suggestions, etc are somehow untrustworthy. No doubt that wasn't the case at all.

 

[RandR10]

I tried plugging off the steering discharge port on the hydraulic block and dumping the discharge directly through the top of the transmission cover. This made no difference. I even changed the oil in the transmission at this point because it was in pretty bad shape.

So I decided to tear into it again and I got the diverter valve apart by shoving a small screwdriver through the holes to get some leverage on it and I think this is pretty definitive.

Here's the spool. This is about the size of the tip of your pinky finger. You can see the scoring marks in it. It still moved in its bore pretty easily like this, but it would bind some from these surface irregularities.

These chunks of metal fell out when I got the cylinder unscrewed from the cap. Even if the spool wasn't worn so badly, these would have been causing issues.

Sorry for the poor focus, but this is the cap. I think this is where the chunks of metal came from. I actually noticed these notches when I had it apart, but the busted out areas were so symmetrical, I thought they were machined in there for some reason. Not so much. I'm not sure how you break those pieces off and they end up inside the valve with the spring, but there it is.

I was thinking because of the extent of the damage, I might as well just order this whole diverter assembly and start fresh. I think other than the spring, everything in it needs replacing. Having second thoughts after I found out that it's a $730 part! Could not find it cheaper anywhere. I could completely redesign the hydraulics on this machine with off the shelf parts for less than that, which is sort of what I'm leaning towards right now. Because of the expense I tried lapping the spool and putting it back together. It moved more freely in the bore after I did it, and the steering does work slightly better without dead heading the loader, but it's still not anywhere near right. I think that spool probably needs to be tighter in the bore for it to function properly. Too much blow by maybe?

I went out and got a bunch of work done with the tractor today anyway which made me feel better about it. I'm really loving the 4 wheel drive for the loader work. My last tractor was a big old Massey 204, which compared to this little guy was a beast, but it was all but useless on a grade with anything at all in the bucket. For now the workarounds with the steering and loader allow me to use it, so I'm going to leave it alone for now. I'll probably start collecting parts to modify the steering and hydraulic system in the next few months. I'm thinking of running a separate power steering pump off of a belt and just eliminating this diverter nonsense completely. Might just get an aftermarket priority valve and cap off the port to the steering circuit and eliminate the priority valve in the existing valve block to keep it simple too. That way I can keep the shutoff valve for the loader in place. Decisions, decisions.

 

[oldnslo]

Rand
Does the spool in the pictures on your post 13 have a hole going through the center of it into the spring chamber or is it solid? Not sure if this was one of the valves from your first post or not.

 

[RandR10]

This is the one with the hole through the center of the spool. There's another, even smaller hole on the other end of it. It looks like a separate piece, although I don't know how you would remove it.

 

[RandR10]

This is the one with the hole through the center of the spool. There's another, even smaller hole on the other end of it. It looks like a separate piece, although I don't know how you would remove it.

You can see this unit assembled with a view of the hole in post #4.

 

[K5lwq]

This parts list appears to be for the LK 3054 but list a part number for the diverter assembly. I would think they are the same. On this list it is part 18. I would try to locate that as the rest of that valve is probably ok.

http://demss.co.kr/dossfile/manualn/pmfile/LK3054/T265P02_226_245.pdf

 

[oldnslo]

This is the one with the hole through the center of the spool. There's another, even smaller hole on the other end of it. It looks like a separate piece, although I don't know how you would remove it.

This sounds like a priority flow control valve with operate by balancing the pressure drop across the larger hole in the nose of the spool against the spring load. If the small hole in the top of the spool is plugged you would get little to no controlled flow out to steering. If the spool was binding or stuck in the sleeve or cage you would also get erratic flow to steering.

You might be able to buy that valve as a separate item if you can identify the flow rate and cavity style- size that it fits in. Standard american sizes are 7/8 - 14 thread approx 1 3/8 inches long from nose of valve to seating shoulder of retainer. Several companies build valves like this some of which are Hydra-Force, Eaton - Modular controls, Delta Power Company, Parker, etc.

other option is to clean the valve you have up and see how it operates. Do not over tighten the cage into the retainer and only torque the valve into the body to around 30 ft-lbs. Over tightening either joint can cause the valve to bind and fail.

The two tabs that broke off during disassembly might have been crimped during assembly to help keep the valve assembled.

 

[RandR10]

Thanks for the help on this guys.

K5lwq I've decided to bypass it because I don't want to deal with the Kioti dealer again, and I don't want to pay whatever extravagant price they're going to want for it even if they do have it. I contacted them twice and they never got back to me when I was gearing up to rebuild the engine. Also, when I spoke to the guy on the phone on my second contact he basically said there's almost no chance they still carry parts for my machine, and that he hadn't had any inquiries about an LB2204 that he could remember.

As far as trying to hunt one down oldnsio, I did look at some manuals from Eaton and Parker, and they didn't have anything of this configuration. Ports on both the front and back of the spool were open when I blew compressed air through them. Reassembled after lapping and cleaning, it worked slightly better, but not well enough to be considered usable as-is.

Here's the plan I've decided to go with. I ordered a Prince RD-150-8 off of eBay. It's an adjustable priority valve, so I can dial it in to as little flow as I need to the steering to make it work well, then the rest of the flow will go to my loader and 3-point. On the existing valve block, I'm plugging off the pressure side port to the steering in the original valve block and removing the cylinder barrel and guts to the existing Flow Diverter valve, which I'll just use as a cap. The existing loader pressure output I'll plumb to the input of the adjustable priority valve. The steering pressure hose will go to the regulated priority output port and the loader pressure hose will go to the excess/unregulated output port. Everything else I'll leave the same. This way I don't have to re-plumb anything else, including the output hard line coming from the pump to the valve block, the Power Beyond line supplying the 3-point lift cylinder after it goes through the loader valve and the return lines from all three, which the block neatly tie into a single hard line that returns it to the transmission case. I also get to keep the relief valve that's in the block, which will keep the steering from blowing its guts out. The rest of the pressure regulators in the system are downstream of the steering, so that one's necessary to keep.

I like that it's adjustable since if either the steering or the loader aren't fast enough for my liking, I can dial it back and forth until I get it into a sweet spot I'm happy with. If the springs get fatigued and it gets out of whack, all I have to do is adjust it until it's back where I want it again. If it fails for some reason, I found countless suppliers that carry this, so good chance I'll be able to just buy another one for $85 and slap it on there.

 

[oldnslo]

Do you have a hydraulic schematic for this tractor ? Suspect no but just curious I was thinking just replace that priority valve not the complete control block if you can determine cavity style and are confident of the circuit design.