Ugh!! Water Well contractors...

[gsganzer]

What is the deal with water well contractors? I'm getting to the point I'd rather have all my teeth pulled without Novocain, then have to deal with another well person. No shows, poor service, deceitful, the list goes on.

The first time I ever needed my well serviced, I had a guy show up with starched pants, silver tips on his boots and smelling like a french *****. Turned out he was a bail bondsman; his brother was the actual well guy who showed late in the evening. He temporarily got me water (repaired a split drop pipe), but I could never get him out to finish replacing the pipe.

A year or so later, I got a guy out to replace the pipe, but he didn't actually have enough pipe, so some of the better original sections (which still weren't that good) had to be re-used.

The last guy was the worst. I never met a guy that got himself so twisted up in his own lies. Long story short, he replaced a 1.5HP pump with a 5HP pump that would overdraw the well in about 5 minutes of run time. His solution was to add a pump protector cut-out to cut the pump off each time the pump ran dry.

My latest predicament started almost two weeks ago, when we noticed our pressure was starting to drop. I did some troubleshooting and found the pump is drawing about half the amps and suspect either the pump has an issue or there's another split pipe. I called the well guy that everyone recommends (he's actually pretty good) and told them my issue. They said they could get to it, but it would be a few days. No problem, I can limp along a few days. It's good service to take care of those in dire need, if someone says they can get by a few days. It's now turned into almost 2 weeks and I can no longer limp along, no water pressure today. Tried calling them again and no answer now.

It's actually put me in a pretty bad position. I have an elderly parent staying with us in an in-law apartment without water, we have goat kids being born so we're hauling water from a neighbors and I was supposed to head out of town Friday.

I should change careers and start a well business.

 

[Moxie 15]

5hp is a large pump. how deep is the well?

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

I find that with a lot of contractors around here. We are about to start building a house. Bought a mobile home for the interim and probably tried 15 people to get it moved.

 

[sree251]

I should change careers and start a well business.

You should change career and be a writer. You write well.

 

[Torvy]

I find that with a lot of contractors around here. We are about to start building a house. Bought a mobile home for the interim and probably tried 15 people to get it moved.

Same, here.

 

[grsthegreat]

problem is, in most areas work has been so strong, the good contractors are buried and not taking on more work. the crappy guys are the ones looking for work....there the ones you find

 

[gsganzer]

I have water!!! The well guy came out and did some troubleshooting, ran some water on the ground, checked for air etc. Low volume and won't build pressure. Pulled up 400' of pipe, put on new pump (more appropriately sized) and got it running. Coming back in the morning to see if we can drop the pump a little to give some more drawdown and clean up some of the previous contractors work/mess.

This was the only well person I trusted and was willing to wait for him, but I hated that it turned into almost 2 weeks and I was down to a bucket brigade. Talk about pucker factor, especially with the freezing temperatures expected through the weekend. I expect there will be a whole new batch of people with frozen well houses. The well guy said he's still knocking out repairs and cleaning up things from last years big TX freeze. Like others have said, the contractors that are good are busy.

 

[ponytug]

I am glad to hear that the well is working for you now.

I feel for you, we had a similar event earlier this fall, when our 37 year old pump started to have the footer check valve start leaking. A highly recommended well company sent a team out and they had to be towed into the well area because they have no traction their tires. They pull the well pipe and motor, and discover that their original paperwork has the wrong motor in the notes, so they have brought the wrong motor/pump combination. So they leave, and three days later we have a record rainfall, so they really aren't going to make it to the well. Meanwhile, the ranch is running on stored water.

Yes, we were sweating about running out of water for the animals.

Two weeks later, they came back with the right pump/motor, not that the install went without a hitch, but two more follow up visits got the details sorted out.

Along the way, I learned that filter media on a backwash type filter supposedly needs to be replaced every three to five years.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Root Cause]

I am having a tough time here in NC. It is difficult to find people to even call back. Almost everyone I meet is about to retire and several references have retired.

I know many who crack on the younger generation not being willing to work but the concept of apprenticeships and mentoring seems to have died about 2 generations ago. Combined, it is where we are today. It looks unlikely that I can have a house built before the end of the year.

 

[gsganzer]

While we're cleaning things up tomorrow, I plan to make some piping changes in the well house and add a double block and bleed. This would allow me some flexibility in the future. I could tap a tote with a pressure demand pump (like an RV pump) into my main line, or I could run a line from/to my neighbors well house to provide backup between us. At one time, my well actually supplied his house too.

 

[Valveman]

I worked on my first water well in 1968. Still remember it. That makes it what, 54 years now. Wow I am getting old. Anyway I am sorry for your problem and it is a BIG problem. I see the same thing in other occupations as well, but especially in the water pump and drilling business because I see it everyday. In my life I have known and been mentored by a lot of really good pump guys and drillers. Sadly, I am about the only one left. When I need help with a pump system there is no longer anyone I can call. I am the only old guy left. Drilling and pumps are occupations you cannot learn in school. If you don't have an old guy to mentor you, everything is learned the hard way.

There is an old saying about being "colder than a well diggers butt". It is very true. But if it isn't cold. it is hotter than heck, raining, snowing, wind blowing, or something as working outside your always at the mercy of the elements. When you are not standing in pouring rain you are working in a cramped vault, crawl space, or dilapidated well house. Also, you won't find a job that is any harder, has longer hours, gets you any dirtier, and receives less thanks than a pump and well person. Nobody ever calls a pump man and tells them how good a job they did. The pump man only hears from people who are mad and out of water. Plus, to be a driller or pump man yo also need to be a welder, mechanic, electrician, plumber, manager, as well as an accountant, book keeper, and all around business person. Not many people like working that hard anymore.

Having been selling Cycle Stop Valves to pump guys all over the world for 30 years now, I have a LOT of experience with them. I hate to say it but the vast majority, I might even say 99% have no clue what they are doing. They just keep changing parts and charging you until it finally works. The only training most of them get is from the pump manufacturers giving classes on how to sell the most profitable items. This is always what is the worst for the homeowner. The new training is mostly how to sell and install variable speed pumps. The teach these guys they don't even need to know anything about pumps. They tell them the VFD or variable speed pump will make any pump do any job, which is far from the truth. They need digital displays and apps on their phones to tell them if and what the problems are. None of them know how to use an multi-meter or diagnose anything. Just pull out the old, install new expensive stuff, and hand the customer the bill. Variable speed pumps are designed to get the most money out of a homeowner as possible for a water system. They even hype them up as saving energy, when they actually use more energy than a pressure tank system.

Anyway, I will get off my soapbox. But the only way to have a good water system is to educate yourself on the subject. If you can't DIY, when the pump man shows up you need to be able to protect yourself from incompetence and misinformation. If you just let the pump man do it the way he wants you are usually being screwed.

 

[npalen]

VEVOR Well Pump 1.5 HP Submersible Well Pump 390ft Head 24GPM Stainless Steel Deep Well Pump for Industrial and Home Use | VEVOR US

Shop VEVOR Well Pump 1.5 HP Submersible Well Pump 390ft Head 24GPM Stainless Steel Deep Well Pump for Industrial and Home Use at lowest price, 2-day delivery, 30-day returns. Shop now at VEVOR.

www.vevor.com

Looking at submersible pumps and this Vevor came up. Look to be super low prices so I doubt that quality is present along with the fact of no 220 volt.

Edit: I see here a 220 volt model but no relay box to go with it:

VEVOR Well Pump 0.5 HP 220V Submersible Well Pump with 49.2ft Cable Stainless Steel Deep Well Pump 25.5GPM for Cities Farmland Irrigation and Home Use | VEVOR US

Shop VEVOR Well Pump 0.5 HP 220V Submersible Well Pump with 49.2ft Cable Stainless Steel Deep Well Pump 25.5GPM for Cities Farmland Irrigation and Home Use at lowest price, 2-day delivery, 30-day returns. Shop now at VEVOR.

www.vevor.com

 

[ddbackhoe]

I am having a tough time here in NC. It is difficult to find people to even call back. Almost everyone I meet is about to retire and several references have retired.

I know many who crack on the younger generation not being willing to work but the concept of apprenticeships and mentoring seems to have died about 2 generations ago. Combined, it is where we are today. It looks unlikely that I can have a house built before the end of the year.

Not many places left that offer any incentive to stick around and learn much less a gold watch at the end.

 

[Valveman]

VEVOR Well Pump 1.5 HP Submersible Well Pump 390ft Head 24GPM Stainless Steel Deep Well Pump for Industrial and Home Use | VEVOR US

Shop VEVOR Well Pump 1.5 HP Submersible Well Pump 390ft Head 24GPM Stainless Steel Deep Well Pump for Industrial and Home Use at lowest price, 2-day delivery, 30-day returns. Shop now at VEVOR.

www.vevor.com

Looking at submersible pumps and this Vevor came up. Look to be super low prices so I doubt that quality is present along with the fact of no 220 volt.

Edit: I see here a 220 volt model but no relay box to go with it:

VEVOR Well Pump 0.5 HP 220V Submersible Well Pump with 49.2ft Cable Stainless Steel Deep Well Pump 25.5GPM for Cities Farmland Irrigation and Home Use | VEVOR US

Shop VEVOR Well Pump 0.5 HP 220V Submersible Well Pump with 49.2ft Cable Stainless Steel Deep Well Pump 25.5GPM for Cities Farmland Irrigation and Home Use at lowest price, 2-day delivery, 30-day returns. Shop now at VEVOR.

www.vevor.com

I see a lot of these. Looks like they sell the same Chinese made pump under many different names as they all look the same. Can't really do a 1.5HP load if it is on 115V, as that would be a 24 amp motor, and you can't get a 115V breaker larger enough to start it. Probably less than 1HP in reality. They are usually oil filled motors with ball bearings. Worries me as to what kind of oil they are using? Years ago we had some oil filled motors, and it isn't good when the oil gets in the well. Water filled motors with a Kingsbury type bearing are better.

However, the brand name pump companies have cheapened up their pumps so much there probably isn't much difference. Any pump will last longer if you limit or eliminate the on/off cycling, which is the most usual cause of a destroyed pump. For that price, especially if you install it yourself, you can't help but try one.

I have a lot of customers using Hallmark and Tuhorse. With a CSV to keep them from cycling to death, both of those seem to be lasting pretty good so far.

 

[npalen]

I see a lot of these. Looks like they sell the same Chinese made pump under many different names as they all look the same. Can't really do a 1.5HP load if it is on 115V, as that would be a 24 amp motor, and you can't get a 115V breaker larger enough to start it. Probably less than 1HP in reality. They are usually oil filled motors with ball bearings. Worries me as to what kind of oil they are using? Years ago we had some oil filled motors, and it isn't good when the oil gets in the well. Water filled motors with a Kingsbury type bearing are better.

However, the brand name pump companies have cheapened up their pumps so much there probably isn't much difference. Any pump will last longer if you limit or eliminate the on/off cycling, which is the most usual cause of a destroyed pump. For that price, especially if you install it yourself, you can't help but try one.

I have a lot of customers using Hallmark and Tuhorse. With a CSV to keep them from cycling to death, both of those seem to be lasting pretty good so far.

Thanks for your feedback. I noticed the website at the bottom of your page so had to check it out. Very interesting animation demonstrating the cycle stop valve. A friend showed me his system with the CSV a while back but I didn't really understand how it works. The animation is helpful.

 

[PILOON]

I'm not a pump/well guy, just the local handyman.
I lucked out shopping service for a client that had well issues.
Most wanted to drill a new well adjacent to the existing one.
The one guy said no problem, I'll simply use an older drill head so that it won't get pinched in the old well and simply go deeper.
And OK, you can supply your own pump. (I suggested new pump to clients as the older one was 30 yrs old and my logic was the old one was living on borrowed time)
Well he came, set up drilled deeper and stopped shortly saying, "You have plenty of water" problem is elsewhere.
He installed our supplied new pump and good to go.
Most other drillers quoted in the range of $10-12K but this guy's tab was under $3K.
Naturally I recommended him to all my clients.

I'll add it was early spring with lots of snow still on site.
This driller had a heated cargo truck with water, welding and impressive array of appropriate tools, and all needed to drill down to 3/400 ft.

Oh, as it turned out the actual issue was a split line between the well and house due to low grade PVC that had probably kinked and then later split due to repeated pressure cycling.

From that point on I always added a check valve on the intake line just before the tank manifold as insurance so as to retain household pressure without it cycling uselessly.
Even if the pump check valve failed or any line split that avoided cycling and failure.
Note that those pumps could re fill the system in mere seconds and delay a proper repair to a more suitable time.

Some early installations used iron pipe and that ends up rusting and leaking over time hence that check valve at the tank/control location worked to return service.

 

[Valveman]

I'm not a pump/well guy, just the local handyman.
I lucked out shopping service for a client that had well issues.
Most wanted to drill a new well adjacent to the existing one.
The one guy said no problem, I'll simply use an older drill head so that it won't get pinched in the old well and simply go deeper.
And OK, you can supply your own pump. (I suggested new pump to clients as the older one was 30 yrs old and my logic was the old one was living on borrowed time)
Well he came, set up drilled deeper and stopped shortly saying, "You have plenty of water" problem is elsewhere.
He installed our supplied new pump and good to go.
Most other drillers quoted in the range of $10-12K but this guy's tab was under $3K.
Naturally I recommended him to all my clients.

I'll add it was early spring with lots of snow still on site.
This driller had a heated cargo truck with water, welding and impressive array of appropriate tools, and all needed to drill down to 3/400 ft.

Oh, as it turned out the actual issue was a split line between the well and house due to low grade PVC that had probably kinked and then later split due to repeated pressure cycling.

From that point on I always added a check valve on the intake line just before the tank manifold as insurance so as to retain household pressure without it cycling uselessly.
Even if the pump check valve failed or any line split that avoided cycling and failure.
Note that those pumps could re fill the system in mere seconds and delay a proper repair to a more suitable time.

Some early installations used iron pipe and that ends up rusting and leaking over time hence that check valve at the tank/control location worked to return service.

I am glad you found a good pump guy, as when you do they are more than worth their weight in gold. I still know a few really good ones. But the ones that charge 12K for a split in the pipe are driving much nicer trucks and living in much nicer houses. Lol! Unfortunately, that is at the expense of homeowners who don't do a little research and educate themselves.

Glad you got the pipe fixed, but you really need to remove that check valve at the tank. When the pump starts the water punches that check valve open like a boxer hitting you right in the nose. It causes water hammer and a pressure spike that can split your new underground pipe. Then when you do get a split or hole in the underground pipe, that check valve at the tank lets it be under vacuum sucking in the mud, pesticides, dog turds, and anything else that has soaked down into the ditch over the years. In most states a check valve above ground is illegal because of the possibility of a vacuum in the underground line. That check valve also mask the problem for while, so you don't know you have been sucking in dog turds or for how long. There are several other reasons for not having extra check valves, but the only check valve you want in a water well system is the one on the submersible pump.

Of course there are pump guys who will put one on the pump, one ever 200', and another at the pressure tank. Most people spend a lot of money trying to figure out why the thrust bearing in their motors keep goin out, the lines keep breaking, the water tests shows contamination, or just to get rid of that loud thump every time the pump comes on. A good pump man like the one you found would charge a few hundred bucks to remove all those check valves and your problems would be solved. But he didn't learn that in school or even in any book.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

We just bought a drill rig and drilled our own. Where we wanted to. When we wanted to.

 

[Citydude]

We just bought a drill rig and drilled our own. Where we wanted to. When we wanted to.

I'm so close to doing just that. Fired the first drilling outfit for going dark (no contact for over a year).

Hired another and was a no show when promised. All kinds of excuses on why the no show. To make things even stickier, he is my cousin.

 

[Oaktree]

problem is, in most areas work has been so strong, the good contractors are buried and not taking on more work. the crappy guys are the ones looking for work....there the ones you find

Not to mention the fact that even mediocre help is hard to find, let alone good help.

Not many places left that offer any incentive to stick around and learn much less a gold watch at the end.

Meh, I think it's more generational. I don't recall much "incentive to stick around" when I was starting out either. We did anyway since there was much more of a stigma to being unemployed than there is today, plus our parents were less likely (read: not at all) to support us well into adulthood.