Re-establishing Survey Corners and Way Points?

[Diggin It]

A guy recently purchased a 7 acre lot. Brought us an outline plan for construction of house, parking and detached garage/workshop. He was upset when we showed him what could be done. Why? Between setbacks, easements and forest conservation, he had less than a 1/3 acre that was actually buildable.

And that's why I said what I said. If it were simplified and standardized and a matter of record on each parcel in a diagrammed format, it could/should be included in each real estate sale listing from the git-go. There would be no surprises like that. There would be no need for interpretations by private companies of what can and can't be done.

If I wanted to cut 10 acres off a 50 acre parcel, I could draw lines on that diagram and be done with it.

 

[ultrarunner]

Surveys have fascinated me as long as I can remember and over the years have been involved resolving and uncovering problems...

In High School I met with the county surveyor in his office and pointed out about an acre of land was included in the legal description of two adjoining parcels and it got corrected.

On my grandparents farm granite corner posts were set back 10' and noted as such on the survey with the reason a shared drainage ditch ran the length at the line and frost heave was moving the markers.

A Doctor bought the adjoining property, undergrounded the ditch and started a concrete wall in line with the granite markers

I was with my grandfather who was 90 at the time as he explained to the foreman the wall was 10' on farmland... the owner was on vacation during the work...

It was not an easy discussion but my grandfather is soft spoken and said boundary location is fact and we'll documented.

When the foreman finally realized he turned white as a ghost...

All the work stopped, a surveyor called, ditch restored, grass planted, etc...

City of Oakland restored monuments after the monumental fire that incinerated 3000 homes...

City screwed up and the error affected 40 lots with rebuilding well underway.

The solution was the city ended up purchasing one lot and the properties forever shifted or offset 5' feet.

One bad monument can cascade and compound affecting many when a burn obliterates everything except foundation...

 

[crashz]

And that's why I said what I said. If it were simplified and standardized and a matter of record on each parcel in a diagrammed format, it could/should be included in each real estate sale listing from the git-go. There would be no surprises like that. There would be no need for interpretations by private companies of what can and can't be done.

If I wanted to cut 10 acres off a 50 acre parcel, I could draw lines on that diagram and be done with it.

I don't think using state, county or city surveyors would simplify anything. Interpretation, lack of documentation and such are already there and are rooted in the documents that the public offices control. Greed, corruption, and favoritism won't go away by any means. Having private licensed surveyors give a better check-and-balance to the whole system. Yes - that puts the cost directly on the land owner. No- its not perfect.

 

[ultrarunner]

Reached out to the company that did the survey I hold and learned they are backlogged to June... don't know about the cost to reset the pins.

Attached is a picture of the boundary in question

The line identified as WALL is where a deer fence stands erected shortly after survey.

Survey shows non existent "Nail and Shiner" in roadway.

Sanitary sewer manhole cover to the upper far right on survey on my property...

Existing deer fence is the visual causing problems as too often assumed fences run with property lines.

Should be simple enough pointing out manhole is on my property and if not buyers can get their own survey...

Always had good neighbors everywhere I have been and with a little luck the new ones will be too...

I have no idea what a 1955 home of 1500 square feet on a city acre will sell for but every recent sale has set a new high...

Really appreciate being able to pose my questions to the TBN brain trust...

 

[California]

Related question: Can you now rent surveyor's GPS gear? When I worked as surveyor's assistant 50 years ago we occasionally rented transits and chains for occasional temporary employees.

I have a known pin at one back corner. Setting a base station there then running bearing and distance, would locate the other back corner that is in near-impassable brush, down in a ravine. There's no line-of-sight through the jungle.

I had a problem with the neighbor in back cutting his own 4-wheeler trail through at least the unmarked corner and I think on my side of most of the line.

The week after another landowner set that corner pin, I nailed an informal monument to my side of the tree next to the corner pin, and a week after that, the no-good back neighbor moved my informal monument to the bottom of the ravine then argued with me that my (moved) monument was now my back boundary. I painted a foot-wide white band around the tree at the known corner, he couldn't move that.

That neighbor has since died (young) but his primitive trail may be attractive to others so I want to make the property line more obvious.

 

[California]

Attached is a picture of the boundary in question due to the impending sale.

You might get a quicker resolution if you send that same photo to all known parties - RE agent, buyer, buyer's lender, buyer's local title insurance company.

 

[ultrarunner]

Outlive is one strategy dealing with problem neighbor.

 

[ultrarunner]

You might get a quicker resolution if you send that same photo to all known parties - RE agent, buyer, buyer's lender, buyer's local title insurance company.

First learned it was even a issue when the Broker having the listing asked the Executor of the Estate for the key to the locked gate to have the firewood and junk hauled away...

The Executor asked me for access and that is when Red Flag went up...

Broker is holding open tomorrow and I plan to drop in...

Good thing I keep my gate locked or I could have come home to find old box trailer, mixer, etc gone... especially being away at moms much of the time.

 

[dodge man]

That quite a survey, it shows topography also.

A couple of points, we don’t want the government involved in surveying. If they hired qualified people they woukd do a good job but the red tape woukd be endless and the wait time would be terrible.

Can you rent survey grade GPS? Yes you can. Would you be able to run it? No. I wouldn’t say it’s incredibly complex but it takes training. I tell people surveyors aren’t the only people that can measure things. We are the only ones who can determine peoples boundaries. Homeowners can attempt to do it themselves on their own property but that doesn‘t always go well.

I will list three very basic kinds of surveys.

1. Town lots, usually a subdivision was done, split into lots and pins installed at the corners.

2. Metes and bounds. Usually the eastern states but not always. Someone above from New York said his description is described along stone walls, pretty typical.

3. Plss. Stands for public land survey system. This is where the government had the ground surveyed into sections of ground, one mile square. While not exactly 100% true from Indiana west this is usually the case, but there are exceptions. Most of the rural areas are described by these sections or parts thereof.

Obviously each of the above 3 types require a different method by the surveyor. Sorry for the long post.

 

[California]

Broker is holding open tomorrow and I plan to drop in...

Please come back and tell us how it went!


I've mentioned before - A broker listed the empty land next door using my postal address. He refused to revise the listing.

Until I told him that everyone who pulls into my driveway will be told my place isn't for sale and the listing in MLS is from a scammer who will take their deposit and disappear.

That got him going. He went back to the county assessor and was issued the next postal address for his vacant land.