Should the community make the rules?

[newbury]

We have a conundrum. The vote clearly indicates members prefer the owner makes the rules. If that becomes the rule, have the members made it?

Gad! I'd been waiting for someone to write that!
110 posts.

Another point -
I usually enter the site via a link to the Forums, and threads like this don't show up until someone writes about them elsewhere on TBN.

To me this forum is like a workingman's bar. You need smart bouncers. Some of us only stop in occasionally so post new rules (like MASK REQUIRED) where we have to see them.

 

[LD1]

I see a number of posts here proposing/requesting that moderators "explain" or "notify" deletions. It's not practical. As a moderator elsewhere, I'll delete a few non compliant posts most days (and probably miss more). I am already doing moderation for free, so I'm not interested in preparing a five minute email justifying my reasons per deleted post - too much time! Even if I would spend the time, I certainly do not want a resulting back and forth argument about my decision. So that forum has a very certain "do not justify moderation" policy. Do what you need to do, and move on. The poster may consider their deleted post in retrospect, and will probably figure out what they should not have said.

Think of this (or any forum you choose) as a club you chose to join. You chose it because you believe it offers an environment which makes you feel welcomed. A part of that is that it is tidy. Hired staff keep the place neat. You like neat, so you pay dues for it, and the hired staff who "moderate" the mess are paid. Well, on the two pilot forums I moderate, I'm not paid, and I bring 45 years piloting experience to my moderating, so it's kinda high priced help - for no price. Moderators are typically quite experienced in the role, so, asking them to do more, may be asking too much.

Hotel lobby rules: Don't post anything you don't feel should be said out loud in a crowded hotel lobby, where anyone could overhear.....

And that is where either more moderators are needed, or moderators that care to take the time.

SEVERAL members have expressed interest in having a reason for posts being removed or deleted or for handing out suspensions.

The rules are not black and white. They are subject to ones opinion....and actions taking based on severity...which again is someone's opinion.

When an active post all of the sudden disappears completely, or is locked without explanation everyone is left wondering just what the cause was. And without explanation, how can anyone learn from past mistakes or know just where the "do not cross" line is. Without knowing that, and making it public...we are doomed to repeat it. And that happens enough....you start having complaints about unfair and biased moderation.

Its not a 5-min email.

If a thread is locked....simply quote the offending posts, explain why it isnt allowed, and move on.

In the past I have seen several moderators use the excuse "we dont have time to prune threads so its easier to just close, lock, or delete" And many times valuable content is lost, and members become upset. Again, more moderators or moderators that actually care rather than act like the job is a burden and look for the easiest solution.

When you break other rules or laws in society, It is explained to you exactly what you did wrong so you dont repeat your mistakes. Could you imagine getting pulled over by a cop and issued a $200 fine with no explanation whatsoever? Leaves you wondering if you have a taillight out? Or did you roll a stop? Or were you swerving a little? Did you miss the little "no right turn on red" sign? Thats not how it works. You are informed of exactly what you did wrong....And that is all that is being asked here.

 

[3Ts]

^ +1
IMO a thread should never be deleted in it's entirety, but rather locked. Individual posts should keep their post slot, but the contents of the post can be deleted if it is determined that is warranted. (That will make the replies a bit confusing, but we'll figure it out if the previous post says "deleted" of something of that sort. There is usually some good information leading up to the problem post(s) and without some info as to why, the problem is bound to be repeated. I was on another site perusing old threads and came across one that had been locked. There was a lot of discussion about whether the thread should be deleted, ended up not being deleted and I came across it years later and it was quite useful in the information and also useful to figure out what the rules are.

 

[3Ts]

What I'm seeing here in all these posts is that the community wants some feedback if (or when) they step over the line.

 

[Jims1025R]

Could you imagine getting pulled over by a cop and issued a $200 fine with no explanation whatsoever?

Yes, but our society pays the cop to take the time to issue the ticket, and if needed, attend court to defend it. So you received a detailed description of the offense, which costs society's money in the cop's time, and you receive your day in court, should you wish, which costs even more of society's money for cop's time, and court time. I doubt that the fine covers that, particularly if you win, and pay nothing! My wife is a retied college professor. She'd tell me of the number of students who would challenge her marking (which, by the nature of the course, was very subjective). She would spend a lot of her personal time ('cause no one was paying for it) to inform inquiring students. Sure, sometimes it was a genuine inquiry for self improvement.... But sometimes, it was a whiner, you could tell by the message. I told her that she should require the student to provide her a receipt for a $25 charitable donation in exchange for her time.

Its not a 5-min email.

Okay, maybe four minutes, maybe six - if a back and forth ensues, for sure more than five!. But I've done it enough to know that if I search out the poster, open a PM, copy the offending post, and formulate my thoughts, considering possibly having to defend what I wrote, so choosing words carefully, it's enough time that I notice - so go with me on the five minute estimate. One a day, with no later back and forth, okay... but how do I tell? four a day, with three responding with a disagreeable challenge, then a further compliant to the administrator about my moderation, and a half an hour is for sure gone, and it was not a pleasant half hour of my time, and I gave it away! The really nice posters, who follow the rules well are not the people whose posts ever need moderation, it's the self important posters, who are certain that their provocative idea, or off color humor should be provided to everyone who want a justification. Do I want to argue with a self important person, who has already broken the rules, for no reward? Nope!

If you're a paid member of a golf club, someone "moderates" the grounds to keep them the way you expect - and pay for! If that person has to report back to every member who drops a wrapper, which is later picked up, that the wrapper was found [where] and disposed of by [whatever], the club dues would be a whole lot more!

I have spent about 15 minutes a day, every day, for the last eight years, moderating one of the two forums I care for. I volunteer, so no pay. So I hope posters appreciate a generally well moderated forum, at zero cost to them, and will be understanding if a moderator does something (rather than nothing) to keep the place clean, and doesn't want give away yet more time to explain why to each offender.....

 

[Doughknob]

The problem would be more debating and more division. It is not that any of us are not committed to the success of this site.

I think the less rules we have the better things are. With just the admin creating the rules while considering the members needs that is what we will and do have. Some people love rules and you will end up with many more great members leaving. Just in the last few days we have seen suggestions like only tractor talk allowed. That would be a bad move no doubt about it.

The main rule we could have that would make a big difference could also be considered religious. It simply is to treat others as you would like to be treated. All problems drift away with that type of mindset.

yep yep, hope you voted for us to vote so we can vote on all u said……

 

[Doughknob]

What I'm seeing here in all these posts is that the community wants some feedback if (or when) they step over the line.

yep yep, i hope everyone is voting for the vote so we can make it a rule to explain and give feedback…..

 

[Doughknob]

I voted no.

When "good" members leave, as some have, the owner of the s

I disagree with those who think this site is "perfect". When people like James and Old Path have to leave, something is not quite right.

so y would u not want to vote to help make it right??

 

[hube2]

As someone that has moderated a busy forum, on a busy forum, asking moderators that are likely not paid, to take the time to write an explanation for each post that must be removed or otherwise moderated is an unreasonable request. It would lead to very little moderation being done at all. And if they are going to break the rules you already know that giving them an explanation will lead to more than one message and quite possibly an argument on why they are right. I'm sure the moderators here have better things to do with their time.

 

[tractortroof]

Americans and the rest of the world are becoming increasingly sensitive to anything they perceive as divisive. We really need to learn to tiptoe around people and stay on approved topics, limiting our thoughts and swift moderation of every discussion is a fine way to achieve uniformity here.

If someone strays from the ever sacred topic of tractors by speaking about the largest pandemic of the past 60 years, who is going to be there to protect me from such disturbing controversy? I obviously cannot cease from clicking on the topic.

What if I don’t like thinking about God and someone mentions his name or says something about prayer? I could become distressed without a swift rebuke from a vigilant mod.

Or if someone questions the coming ice age, global warming or flat earth theory that I believe in? Hence the place for the pc police.

We need these guys in every corner of society.

I blame Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Let’s keep neutral in our thoughts today by doing crossword puzzles and coloring books.

Thank you my fellow Muricans? For hearing me (or not).