2020 4815C(H) Engine temp dash monitor

[Branson Bob]

sorry for the late reply ( i was out for a while with covid) i did receive an answer back from branson's president from what he stated the design change was mainly due to supply shortages on the other style of digital dash, basically they had to make due with what they could get ahold of which is why the manuals show a different style gauge cluster compared to what is installed, they are fully aware of the temp issue and will from what he said be making changes to rectify the situation as soon as they can, my guess would be a service bulletin will come out not long from now with an updated part that will have to be swapped, but i am glad they are taking this seriously, as soon as i have some info on when this may occur i'll let you guys know.

Thank you and glad you're feeling better.

 

[Texasmark]

I sent Branson an email via their "contact us". It's been 4-5 days now and no answer. We'll see.... I think there ought to be a recall on the tractors without a temp gauge.

Any body that was worked an engine knows the value of the gauge and warning you when you are exceeding the cooling capacity. Sometimes it means shutting the AC off till you are through, other times it mesn drop a gear, then there is the put the wheels down on a drag implement and don't dig so deep, or when mowing heavy brush, the above or move over and don't cut a whole swath.....anything to get the job done when needed rather than having to stop in the middle of the field, in the middle of he job, maybe its a Saturday and the only day you have to get the work done, wondering what happened, how long do I have to wait for it to cool down, how much did it cool down, how long do I have to try again before I get the idiot light again.

Asteral,

The dash has no place for the meter in the first place. How is it that the dash was manufactured without one in the first place. Are they implying that the dash assembly was deliberately designed and then built in quantity with no temp gauge....hogwash!

Sad.....sad.....sad...Black eye for sure...you can kiss my support bye bye!!!!

 

[ericm979]

Does it at least have an overheating idiot light?

 

[ptsg]

Is it ideal not having a temp gauge? Nope, not all, but it's not the end of world either. It still has an overheating temp light, at least accordingly to the TYM manual, which I'm pretty sure that's where this style of dash came from. It would also not surprise me that the light comes on way before there is any risk to the engine.

Loads of on road vehicles in Europe don't have a temp gauge, only a red temp light when it's overheating and some, like Renault, have a blue temp light indicating that the engine is cold, so take it easy till it warms up.

Before the European tractor manufacturers had to change from air cooled diesel engines to water cooled engines to meet emissions requirements, none of those tractors with air cooled engines had a temp gauge, not even for the oil. It's wasn't an issue either. It did had an oil pressure gauge, so if it was getting too hot, you would notice the oil pressure going down.

The only time my tractor got a bit more hotter than normal, the first sign I got was that my legs were actually overheating and then I really had to apply my "wannabe machinist" eye in order to notice that the gauge moved up less than a millimeter. The screen was fully clogged. So it's not that the temp gauge will tell much on these tractors either. As someone mentioned before, it's almost like an On/Off switch. Either it's too hot or it's not.

 

[ericm979]

Most temperature "gauges", in US cars and trucks anyhow, are really three stage idiot lights with a damper to make them move like a real gauge. Low, normal, hot. On an OBD2 vehicle you can hook up a scanner to read the temp sensor output and see it change within the normal range while the gauge needle never moves.

I don't know if my 3725's light is one but I think it's not.

 

[Texasmark]

Well my 2011 Silverado and 2009 Honda Element both have real time gauges and you can see them follow the engine as it warms up, verified by the heater vents starting to get warm. When both vehicles reach the thermostat opening temperature the gauge stops. Only when sitting in heavy traffic with the AC on in the summer can you see it inch up and with electric fans, doesn't take for a few minutes and the gauge is back to the opening temp position.

When I am running my tractors, much less operating them under heavy loads, I pay full attention to my engine temp and as I said previously herein and if in fact it does have an idiot light it's out of its place in my opinion.

Part of my problem with this issue is that I feel responsible for any short comings my neighbor may have with his decision to buy Branson over others as I had 2 at the time and flaunted them, giving him my reasoning and attempting to influence his purchase which must have been the case since the bought the 4815CH.

 

[K5lwq]

Well my 2011 Silverado and 2009 Honda Element both have real time gauges and you can see them follow the engine as it warms up, verified by the heater vents starting to get warm. When both vehicles reach the thermostat opening temperature the gauge stops. Only when sitting in heavy traffic with the AC on in the summer can you see it inch up and with electric fans, doesn't take for a few minutes and the gauge is back to the opening temp position.

When I am running my tractors, much less operating them under heavy loads, I pay full attention to my engine temp and as I said previously herein and if in fact it does have an idiot light it's out of its place in my opinion.

Part of my problem with this issue is that I feel responsible for any short comings my neighbor may have with his decision to buy Branson over others as I had 2 at the time and flaunted them, giving him my reasoning and attempting to influence his purchase which must have been the case since the bought the 4815CH.

I still think your neighbor has a very nice tractor that he will be very happy with in the long run.

I would definitely be adding a mechanical temp gauge though. Like you, I watch my gauges constantly. But this would not be a deal breaker for me and I am very happy with my 4815C.

 

[Asteral]

so i don't have any update as of yet on what they plan to do about this, but I'm in complete agreeance with you guys they never should have launched these units without a way to monitor temps, in my opinion they should preform a service bulletin and update the tach's to one with a monitorable temp gauge.

 

[ptsg]

If anything, a red light will bring more attention than a temp gauge that will barely move when it's getting hot. And yes, I do monitor all my gauges constantly as well.

I still struggle to understand why this is such a big deal that would stop someone from buying said tractor. Would I prefer an actual temp gauge? Absolutely, specially being a digital dash, they could actually show the exact numbers instead of a gauge, but wouldn't change my buying decision based on the lack of a temp gauge.

Took a screenshot out of the service manual for the 2020+ 15 Series. It has the new style dash that K5lwq showed on the previous page. As you can see on the middle position of the needle, it can either be 70ºC or 107ºC. Confirming what Eric said about being pretty much a 3 position thing.

And the old dash style for comparison, showing temp variations a lot better.

 

[Texasmark]

I still think your neighbor has a very nice tractor that he will be very happy with in the long run.

I would definitely be adding a mechanical temp gauge though. Like you, I watch my gauges constantly. But this would not be a deal breaker for me and I am very happy with my 4815C.

Well sir, since you own one, how do you monitor your engine temperature?

 

[Texasmark]

If anything, a red light will bring more attention than a temp gauge that will barely move when it's getting hot. And yes, I do monitor all my gauges constantly as well.

I still struggle to understand why this is such a big deal that would stop someone from buying said tractor. Would I prefer an actual temp gauge? Absolutely, specially being a digital dash, they could actually show the exact numbers instead of a gauge, but wouldn't change my buying decision based on the lack of a temp gauge.

Took a screenshot out of the service manual for the 2020+ 15 Series. It has the new style dash that K5lwq showed on the previous page. As you can see on the middle position of the needle, it can either be 70ºC or 107ºC. Confirming what Eric said about being pretty much a 3 position thing.

View attachment 735531

And the old dash style for comparison, showing temp variations a lot better.

View attachment 735532

Well you have an analog instrument driven by a varying resistance as a function of temperature which is how temp monitors work. Using some common sense here..........the needle will not sit in the center mark while the resistance changes as mentioned in the chart. The center point of the resistance posted is about 190F which is where my Ford 3910's thermostat starts to open and is a good temperature for running a diesel and expecting to maximize combustion efficiency.

My bet is that the intermediate marks are at 158 F and 232F. This isn't a 3 position instrument as claimed. If it were you would have 3 separate thermal sensors and when their temperature was exceeded a switch would activate and the meter would step function to the corresponding position......fat chance on that being the case!

One should expect the needle to rise linearly till it hits the center mark and then stay there while the thermostat continues to open as the engine heats, producing very minor variations in the needle positon. When the load exceeds the cooling capacity, then the needle will start moving again at a pace similar to the initial deflection.

If the needle gets to the hot marker, you had better cease operation because at 248F you are exceeding the ability of your 50-50 antifreeze and radiator pressure cap to retain the coolant in the radiator....
ALA boil over time!

 

[K5lwq]

Well sir, since you own one, how do you monitor your engine temperature?

I look at the gauges. Mine has the same cluster that is in the manual.

 

[ericm979]

My bet is that the intermediate marks are at 158 F and 232F. This isn't a 3 position instrument as claimed. If it were you would have 3 separate thermal sensors and when their temperature was exceeded a switch would activate and the meter would step function to the corresponding position......fat chance on that being the case!

They do the three position gauge with one sensor. The gauge is controlled by a hardware or software logic circuit, it's not analog like you're thinking. I have watched gauges like this in vehicles where I also have a direct read of the temp sensor via OBD2, and yep, "low" and "normal" positions cover a wide range of sensor values. Never got to "high".

Look at the manual pages ptsg posted.. the new style three position one is "stepping motor type + ECU control". It's controlled by software.

 

[LouNY]

A bit late for the party but;
there is one simple way to find out if your temperature gauge is linear and accurate.
Park next to an electrical outlet, get a hotplate and a pan of Ice water extend the leads for your temperature sensor.
Measure the resistance with the sensor in Ice water and go ahead and put a thermometer in the water also,
you should be reading the resistance for 0C/32F and when hooked up your gauge should be indicating cold.
Start heating the water with the hot plate monitoring with you thermometer let the water temperature stabilize
around say 50C/122F, measure the resistance and verify your gauge reading.
Now repeat this step around 80C/176F and repeat measuring the resistance and verifying the gauge reading.
Now heat the water up to a light boil your thermometer should be reading close to 100C/212F, measure the resistance and
verify the gauge reading.
Now you will know were your gauge reads at various temperatures and especially at boiling with just atmospheric pressure,
so your tractor is still safe at 212F/100C but it's time to clean or at least check it over.

 

[Texasmark]

Well, keeping this post alive, anybody heard back from Branson???????