High fuel cost and wood

[5030]

The economy moves on diesel. From the time that a farmer plants his seed to when it hits the grocery store, everything is moved with diesel horsepower. Even MR EV himself, Elon Musk said that we can't sustain these prices.

Something has to change or the economy could be in for a correction like most of us have never seen.

According the the greenies, the economy moves on renewable energy. I have yet to see that myself.

Far as my prices for my forage this year it's going up (like everything else is) but how much I have not determined yet. I need to pencil everything out and then decide. It will be an amount that won't alienate my customers but still allow me to operate in the black. Fine line involved this year, very fine line.

 

[Hay Dude]

He is the richest man in the world(or was, don't keep up with that), he has to have some clues about something!

He sees the world through a wealthier pair of glasses than we do for sure, but at least he has some ability to recognize the plight of the great unwashed, unlike…..

I’d doubt anyone who could lower inflation right now is really affected by inflation right now, so they dont give a rats pitute (whatever a rats pitute is) about it and the average guys suffering.

 

[dodge man]

I have a tractor, a couple of decent Stihl chainsaws and a lower cost splitter. For what I’d get paid for firewood around here I’d be lucky to get $10 and hour for my time, let alone pay for my equipment. I’d need everything except the splitter if I didn’t burn firewood my self but I just don’t see the money in selling firewood.

 

[Rightsaidfred]

I filled my diesel farm tank in the fall for .96 cents a litre (1550 litre tank). I called 2 weeks ago to check on current prices and it was 1.67 a litre for Dyed Diesel. So glad I filled it in the fall ( I dont use mach in the winter).

on top of that , Hay seed (109 a bag now 190 a bag) and Oat See (15 a bag now 30 a bag) has close to doubled, as has Fertilizer (though I managed to buy what I need fo fertilizer last year in anticipation of this).

I most of my hay I use myself, what bit I do sell will have to go up in price to cover diesel and seed prices etc.

 

[51allis]

I am currently building a new smaller retirement home, planning on using propane for boiler baseboard heat/stove/dryer. But I also have an EPA woodstove (works good when no power etc. can even warm up food on it). Im weighing the possibility of making my own smaller wood boiler as a means to take over the primary propane boiler, its scary when you watch the news how our political establishment is just out to kill anything that is using oil and force people to use electric. Before I go to an electric boiler, ill def. make a wood one instead. Seen so many get rid of their woodstoves these past few years...with the recent power outage due to ice storm and cost of petroleum based heat (including nat. gas), I bet a lot of them wished they kept their woodstove.

 

[Bill Guenthner]

I am currently building a new smaller retirement home, planning on using propane for boiler baseboard heat/stove/dryer. But I also have an EPA woodstove (works good when no power etc. can even warm up food on it). Im weighing the possibility of making my own smaller wood boiler as a means to take over the primary propane boiler, its scary when you watch the news how our political establishment is just out to kill anything that is using oil and force people to use electric. Before I go to an electric boiler, ill def. make a wood one instead. Seen so many get rid of their woodstoves these past few years...with the recent power outage due to ice storm and cost of petroleum based heat (including nat. gas), I bet a lot of them wished they kept their woodstove.

You should look into a mini-split heat-pump system. They are incredibly efficient. My new, well insulated house costs very little to heat and cool with this system. I have a propane wall heater for emergency heat if the power goes out (which is very rare). I don’t want to be dealing with wood and cleaning out stoves in my 70s and 80s.

 

[51allis]

You should look into a mini-split heat-pump system. They are incredibly efficient. My new, well insulated house costs very little to heat and cool with this system. I have a propane wall heater for emergency heat if the power goes out (which is very rare). I don’t want to be dealing with wood and cleaning out stoves in my 70s and 80s.

Nice idea, but in my area good plumbers/hvac are just not available to install a system like that, even if they were, the cost to hire them would be outrageous. My retirement home has R29 walls and an R60 ceiling...most of it is done and trying to keep the costs down by doing all the work on my own, so far the total cost to build it will meet our budgeted price of 37K and that includes well and septic for a home that is 1208 sq' in size. I could build a wood boiler, just a plain simple one for less than $900 and install it myself saving money that way. Projected wood usage with my own homemade wood boiler would be about 3 full cord a year, 3.5 if I use a indirect water heater for domestic hot water. I'm sure a heat pump system would cost many many thousands of dollars...which I dont want to pay for if I can build my own wood boiler and just pay for the electric to run the circulator pump, I love cutting wood/splitting wood every year...its a chore that takes my mind off things and is peaceful...kinda like cutting n bailing hay. Glad your heat pump is working out for you tho'.

 

[RolandW]

When our house was built in 1989 we put a wood furnace next to the electric one in the basement and connected it to the ductwork. We burned a lot of wood until about eight years ago when we had a ground-source heat pump installed. I haven't cut a stick of wood since that for heat, and our electric bills in the winter are lower than they were before. Where the system really shines is for air conditioning. Now we keep the house as cool as we want it in the summer, and our bill is rarely much over $100 even with two refrigerators and a chest-type freezer running. Some months it costs almost as much to run the dehumidifier in my shop building as it does to power the house.
I bring this up only because I think it's something for a wood burner to consider if your current system is close to needing replacement, and like me you're getting to the age where the always-risky adventure of cutting down dead trees has lost its charm. These systems are crazy expensive, but in our case we got a third of it back at tax time. Not sure whether that federal credit is still available.

 

[51allis]

When our house was built in 1989 we put a wood furnace next to the electric one in the basement and connected it to the ductwork. We burned a lot of wood until about eight years ago when we had a ground-source heat pump installed. I haven't cut a stick of wood since that for heat, and our electric bills in the winter are lower than they were before. Where the system really shines is for air conditioning. Now we keep the house as cool as we want it in the summer, and our bill is rarely much over $100 even with two refrigerators and a chest-type freezer running. Some months it costs almost as much to run the dehumidifier in my shop building as it does to power the house.
I bring this up only because I think it's something for a wood burner to consider if your current system is close to needing replacement, and like me you're getting to the age where the always-risky adventure of cutting down dead trees has lost its charm. These systems are crazy expensive, but in our case we got a third of it back at tax time. Not sure whether that federal credit is still available.

It seems like its a double edged sword so to speak. Wood has its negatives for sure, I get my wood delivered by the whole semi load and when that gets too expensive, our state/county has a program where we can get up to 6 cord a year free if we go do the work. When I buy semi load fulls of wood, its 20 cord plus loads that last me 5 to 6 years. The heat pump system, like you said, is crazy expensive but the electric costs are low, for now??? what about the projected costs when everyone is using electric vehicles, electric furnaces, electric dryers, and all sorts of electric appliances....electricity is sure to rise. Then you become dependent on just one energy source with no backup. That might work in your area but here in the Yoop where it gets mighty cold in the interior...I can't do that. We have plenty of wood, its a renewable resource here. My other house I built was less insulated, larger, 1700 sq' and that too I built my own wood boiler in addition to the propane boiler to lessen the cost, in that house, I averaged 5 cord a yr INCLUDING domestic hot water (system already had an indirect fired water heater). Cost to run the circulator pumps was about 10 bucks a month. Some systems work good in some areas. Im just worried about the future, electric where my new retirement home is, is still higher than most of the other places in the Yoop, out there its UPPCO, thats why I tried to limit how much electricity I would use. Glad your system works for you tho'. Its nice to share ideas.

 

[tjandrews]

It isn't always as simple as "my costs have gone up, so my prices have to go up." Supply and demand come into play, and you have to find the right balance for your situation.
We have a small farm in Central NY. We get the vast majority of our revenue from selling vegetables on a roadside stand, and horse hay from our barn. We've been selling vegetables for 60 years, and have always had about 99% going to the end user. We've been selling hay for even longer, originally selling by the tractor trailer load to someone for resale, but for the last 14 years that has also been going directly to the end user. (When the economy hit the skids in 2008, we quickly discovered the error of relying on a single customer. He lost his customer for our hay, so we lost him.)
With retail,we can't set our prices solely on what our input costs are. Hay is one example. There are only so many hay customers out there, and you are competing with other producers for the same customers. If it's a good year and there's lots of hay around, you can't charge as much as when hay is short. You don't make any money on hay that stays in the barn.
It's even worse for vegetables, because they are perishable. Leftover hay, properly stored, can be sold the next year. Vegetables have to be sold within a few days of picking them. You can't hope to sell them the next season. If your prices are higher than the public is willing to pay, your produce winds up being a money loser instead of a money maker.
Balance is the key in all things.