Vacuum muck from old well

[irwin]

I’m looking for advice. Well is over 100 years old, very nicely constructed. The depth to top of muck is 14 feet, about 3-4 feet of muck. Wondering about buying a better wet vac to DIY or should I just hire a vacuum truck outfit?
Thanks, Tim

 

[sea2summit]

No help here, an opinion would be hire it out. What are you trying to do with the well though?

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

You could make a suction dredge with a water pump and hose.

 

[irwin]

Creating a beautiful addition to my property, and want to use the water (eventually) for horses and garden

 

[irwin]

If possible I want to do my own work, sometimes it costs me more, but I like the satisfaction of doing the projects myself (don’t most of us ?)

 

[alexpops]

HF 2 inch semi garbage pump. Maintaining prime on a 14 ft drop may be an issue, but possible if you add a check valve at end of pick-up hose. Probably a multiple stage clean up, give it time to recharge after the well is pumped dry each time.

2 in. 212cc Gasoline Engine Semi-Trash Water Pump - 158 GPM

Amazing deals on this 2In 212Cc Gasoline Semi-Trash Pump 158Gpm at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

 

[ChuckT]

I'd go the suction dredge route if it's doable. Thing is, and I don't recall clearly, any suction will only lift x feet. So in mines, as an example, they have multiple lifts.

 

[irwin]

Thanks for the advice, I wondered how many pump outs I have to do.
This is one reason I want to DIY, if I hired someone it’d be a one shot deal but without a thorough clean up.

 

[repete]

We had a bad flood in our area many years ago and we cleaned mud out of wells by using about a 3' length of 2.5" steel pipe on a section of fire department hose to pump water in and force mud out. We used a fire department water tender to pump in. It took very little pressure to "pump" the mud out and some of the well owners said they were able to lower their pumps about 15' further down in the casing than the last pump replacement. The well casings became the drains for the about 1' of mud that came with the flood waters.
The most you can lift water is about 32' with a perfect vacuum. Mud will be less as it is heavier.

 

[irwin]

I’d hate to spend several hundred $ on a trash pump and learn it can’t suck mud up 18 feet .. Have to ask vertical specs
I don’t have a friend at firehouse, (but I should)

 

[airbiscuit]

We had an old school well driller drill our well. He would drive the casing down a ways, and then lower a slightly smaller diameter pipe in the hole and pull the out the tailings. Think about putting a straw in a glass of water and then covering the top with your finger and lifting it out of the glass.

You could do the same with a pipe that had some sort of flapper valve in the top to let out air on the way down, and seal the suction on the way up.

 

[ponytug]

Just to be clear, how far down to the top of the water? How large is the diameter?

Typically, a pump can lift up to 20-25' or so, depending on lots of things, including pump design and and how much muck you have.

The safest way would be to use an air lift, where you run a compressed air line in parallel with a waterline with a U at the bottom to bubble air into the water line. You throttle the air line to find the right amount of air for maximum pumping. It is quite tolerant of muck and variable water levels. If your water level is high, you might be able to get away with flexible pool hose, or 1.5-2" poly pipe. Make sure that you run a heavy rope along side of the two lines, taped together regularly and well fastened at the bottom, and tie it to something solid (not a vehicle!) while you are working on it.

I suspect that you will need and want to do it a couple of times. If you plan to use it for animals and humans, I would have it tested for at a minimum, trace metals, nitrates, and chlorinated/fluorinated contaminants. I would chlorin shock it when you are done and get a good cover, if it doesn't have one already to keep mice, insects, and other living things out.

All the best,

Peter

 

[alexpops]

HF claims "suction head lift: 26 ft. Total Head lift 91." I haven't tried a vertical 14-18 ft lift with mine, but I have partially pumped out a blocked septic tank ~ 10 ft lift with no problems & run it as a washdown using pond water with gradual 12 ft lift all day long. you may need an extra intake hose & connector (or piece together something with ABS or PVC) since I think their standard intake line is 10 ft. I find that once primed, the pump works pretty flawless ... whether it stays that way over time or not is the question.

If your mud/muck is really thick, you could add a secondary pressure washer line secured along the discharge and stir things up as you pump to make it easier to suck out. (think of a thick frosty through a straw ... much easier when the outside melted part is stirred back in to the frozen middle)

 

[Doofy]

Build you one of these. Cheap and simple. All that you need is water and air.

My well is two 3'x12' culverts standing on end. I muck it out every couple of years to clean and improve flow. I'm a good 15' down.

 

[LittleBill21]

Build you one of these. Cheap and simple. All that you need is water and air.

My well is two 3'x12' culverts standing on end. I muck it out every couple of years to clean and improve flow. I'm a good 15' down.

can someone explain how this works, or provide some kind of flow diagram. how does pushing air make the mud go up the tube?

 

[Doofy]

Before the kids grew up and left home, I would pump out as much water as possible and send them down with a 5 gallon bucket and a short shovel. I would hoist it up and out with a sturdy rope. The Wife then inherited that chore. Now, the only time we have to go in the well is to replace the light bulb.

 

[sea2summit]

can someone explain how this works, or provide some kind of flow diagram. how does pushing air make the mud go up the tube?

The air needs to get injected into the tube a few inches above the inlet, the air wants to rise out of the fluid, fluid basically rides the bubbles up the tube.

 

[Doofy]

Google "Brumby Pump" they had some very good explanations.

 

[etpm]

As the pump starts to draw from deeper the suction becomes less. If the fluid being pumped is heavy the loss of suction happens faster. About 33 feet of water can be sucked up a pipe before a vacuum forms and the water starts to boil. But only about 30 inches of mercury can be sucked up a pipe before a vacuum is formed. This is because the air pressure is really what pushes the fluid up the pipe. You may find that using a trash pump will work pretty well if you dilute the muck with water, but that thick muck just won't flow very well, or even start flowing in the first place. If I was you I would be tempted to buy the 260 dollar pump and 65 dollar suction hose from HF if hiring a vacuum truck is about the same cost. If you're not in a hurry you could look for a used pump too. I assume the well has plenty of water on top of the muck that can be mixed into the muck to thin it out. You could pump water out of the well and direct it right back in to stir up the muck. How are you going to dispose of the muck? Can you just let it spread on the ground to dry? Oh, I just remembered, you will also need to spend another 35 bucks on a discharge hose. So it would cost 400 bucks for all the pump related stuff.
Eric

 

[crashz]

A vac truck is not the cheapest and you'll need to handle the muck after (need a place to dump the truck) but its sure to get the well clean. I hired a company called Badger to do some work form me a few years ago and they located a steam line buried 13ft below ground surface by vactor and jet rodder in about 30 minutes. They could vac the muck out and remove any stubborn material with the pressure washer / jet rodder.

I like doing things myself as well and even better if I get to buy a new tool, but sometime your time is worth more. what is the depth to water?