Choice: food or solar fields

[kenmbz]

California Delta has been hammered by water usage:

According to the new Environmental Impact Report (EIR/EIS) the reductions in fresh water flows will double outright violations of salinity standards along the San Joaquin River, and the lower Sacramento River, in addition to a 26 to 60 percent increase of salinity in habitat for fish, vegetation, and agricultural soils ...

And many of the islands are sinking 1-3" per year

 

[ruffdog]

Farming UNDER the solar panels.

Electric Farms Are Using Solar Power to Grow Profits and Crops

 

[Gee Ray]

Farming UNDER the solar panels.

Electric Farms Are Using Solar Power to Grow Profits and Crops

This might work but all the solar farms I have seen in Florida are to short to get under and stand up. I have been to 9 or ten of them all here in Florida. They all are built with heavy short I-beams uprights that are not conducive to working under. I have wondered why the panels are not set up higher so you could graze cattle or truck farm under them.

The first one I went to they leveled the field with heavy equipment before they put up the panels. Now they do not bother to level the fields. In fact the soil disturbance is kept to a minimum. Unless you count ripping the orange grove out as a big disturbance.

 

[DutchInNZ]

There are large solar farms within 10 miles of where I live. They are about 100 acres each. The farms and ranch lands aggregate in the tens of thousands of acres. A little perspective. They are also producing cheaper electricity than the older coal plants (now closed) used to produce. So let’s disregard the climate model discussion. The power is cheaper and cleaner.

Are these fields, as the very majority I know of, subsidised or tax-promoted compared to the plants they replace? If so, you are paying not less, but indirectly via-via and maybe more. In Germany, since they started the elimination of fossil plants and replacing them with solar fields and windmills, the cost of energy has risen by abt. 200%; the German people are now leading in paying the price per kWh in Europe, in spite of still having a, albeit by now slowly reduced, subsidisation. And, because of the unreliability of the green sources, fossil plants have to be maintained and kept running anyway. Nuclear is out of the question there because of the same irrealistic idealism.

 

[jyoutz]

Are these fields, as the very majority I know of, subsidised or tax-promoted compared to the plants they replace? If so, you are paying not less, but indirectly via-via and maybe more. In Germany, since they started the elimination of fossil plants and replacing them with solar fields and windmills, the cost of energy has risen by abt. 200%; the German people are now leading in paying the price per kWh in Europe, in spite of still having a, albeit by now slowly reduced, subsidisation. And, because of the unreliability of the green sources, fossil plants have to be maintained and kept running anyway. Nuclear is out of the question there because of the same irrealistic idealism.

Actually the subsidies went away a few years ago. The economics have changed a lot in the past 5 years. Coal is a very expensive fuel now: mining, truck transport to railway, haul away the toxic waste and disposal. My state replaced coal plants with natural gas turbines that run on piped fuel; no transport and toxic waste disposal expenses. The supplemental wind and solar power feed directly into the grid without a lot of additional activities. The economics of power generation have changed greatly in recent years.

 

[Hay Dude]

Actually the subsidies went away a few years ago. The economics have changed a lot in the past 5 years. Coal is a very expensive fuel now: mining, truck transport to railway, haul away the toxic waste and disposal. My state replaced coal plants with natural gas turbines that run on piped fuel; no transport and toxic waste disposal expenses. The supplemental wind and solar power feed directly into the grid without a lot of additional activities. The economics of power generation have changed greatly in recent years.

Except when the wind don't blow or the sun don’t shine, which is a lot of a typical 24 hour day.

Most times I drive west on I-70 across the mountains of western Maryland, the huge ugly windmills they built on the mountain sides are sitting still or moving painfully slow. Solar panels dont work in the dark and need massive banks of batteries to store energy. I see a lot of windmills down for blade replacement or maintenance. The bird slaughter from them is insane.
Token supplementation at best, with poor reliability due to darkness or no wind. Wind only producing 1.6% of my states electrical energy and thats with 27 wind farms running. Solar only producing .4% of electricity in my state.
Facts are stubborn things.

 

[jyoutz]

Except when the wind don't blow or the sun don’t shine, which is a lot of a typical 24 hour day.

Most times I drive west on I-70 across the mountains of western Maryland, the huge ugly windmills they built on the mountain sides are sitting still or moving painfully slow. Solar panels dont work in the dark and need massive banks of batteries to store energy. I see a lot of windmills down for blade replacement or maintenance. The bird slaughter from them is insane.
Token supplementation at best, with poor reliability due to darkness or no wind. Wind only producing 1.6% of my states electrical energy and thats with 27 wind farms running. Solar only producing .4% of electricity in my state.
Facts are stubborn things.

You missed the part where I mentioned natural gas turbines. Still the wind and solar produces 36% of the electricity used in the state. The commercial solar and wind farms have no battery storage; they feed directly into the transmission lines.


In 2021, renewable resources accounted for the largest share of New Mexico's in-state electricity generation, about 36% of power from utility-scale (1 megawatt or larger) facilities and a total of 37% from utility-scale and small-scale (less than 1 megawatt) facilities combined.
Homepage - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) › state › analysis

U.S. Energy Information Administration - Independent Statistics and Analysis​

 

[Hay Dude]

Yep, when the suns out and the wind is blowing. You have those in your state.

In mine, we got lots of gas. Enough in one deposit to supply the US for over 200 years. Not a lot of wind or sunny days to cover our natural beauty with imported solar panels or bird killing windmills.

 

[jyoutz]

Yep, when the suns out and the wind is blowing. You have those in your state.

In mine, we got lots of gas. Enough in one deposit to supply the US for over 200 years. Not a lot of wind or sunny days to cover our natural beauty with imported solar panels or bird killing windmills.

There is a huge wind farm in Somerset, PA

 

[Hay Dude]

There is a huge wind farm in Somerset, PA

Yeah, but it’s only 1 of the 27 producing only 1.6% of our electricity. They fall apart quickly and kill birds. Gas is the way here.
Your state is sunny & windy. Ours isn’t. You always talk as if everything that works for you in your area works for everyone else, everywhere else. ‘
It doesn’t.
Solar wont work in cloudy areas and wind wont work where theres little wind.