Hydraulic fluid

[Redlands Okie]

As others have pointed out, the oil is only a part of the fluids package of components that protect your equipment from wear. Some of the fluids are sure pricy. Just keep in mind it’s a lot cheaper than the repair bill or replacement cost from trying to save money. Save a hundred maybe. Maybe spend thousands as a result.

 

[UncleBuck1]

I would stick with what your owner's manual says, you can never go wrong that way

That's what I'm trying to work out; the specifications in the manual says 10W-30 / GLS-4 / Massey Ferguson CMS M1143... and then there's an additional column that recommends Permatran III. The problem is I can't find Permatran III!

 

[DMW]

Lots of information... and I'm even more confused than ever!!!

Don't over think it. Use whays available locally if possible. HyGard J20C or Kubota SUDT2 are excellent oils, you will never have to question if you bought the right one. Only buy what you need. Most of that 3rd partially used 5 gallon pail will just collect condensation. 1 or 2 1/2 gallon container instead.

 

[Surshot]

A true Pay me now, pay me later deal.

 

[Williy]

I have never had any problems with condensation
in 5 gallon cans of oil. and some of them are over
3 years old. Al tho I prefer to purchase the case lots
with the 2.5 gal containers on sale

willy

 

[JWR]

good question... 5030 mentioned that he send his oil out to Blackstone Labs for analysis so he knows the % of life left ... I ask him to elaborate on the process but hasn't came back to us yet... I personally do change my oil every 400 to 500 hours (400h is recommended in my owner manual) and you actually see the color changing form clear to murky brown at these hours in the eye glass port so that indicate the oil is been depleted.

I couldn't care less about what percentage of tractor out there who gets services at their recommended hours but I can assure you mine dose, a good advise is to do your maintenance as your owner manual recommendation. You are in title to not do so but I also am to point out it is not a good advise.

Lubricant analysis is a highly refined and extremely useful technology developed to the extreme in our Department of Defense. All the services use it. Failure prediction. Failure prevention, diagnosis of an incredible array of ailments. But us duffers operating farm tractors have little/no ability (or need) to get into such expensive and sophisticated tools. It may be that 5030 has found a practical source for such assists (?) I'm sure he will let us know.

By the way, to me hydraulic fluid in a tractor is primarily a hydraulic fluid and only secondarily a lubricant. Sure it is very nice to have it with lubricating qualities, some cleaning characteristics, etc. but in a lot of ways it may as well be water or kerosene or any non-compressible fluid. Brake fluid is an example.

 

[priberc]

I’m about to hit 500 hours on my clock on my MF 2660HD so its about time to change my hydraulic oil. The tractor holds 11 gallons of hydraulic fluid and with current prices this is not a cheap job!

For my tractor the relevant spec is M1143 (MF Permatran iii recommended); will any fluid that meets or exceeds this spec work? Is there any real world difference between fluids assuming they meet M1143 specs?

"will any oil fluid that meets or exceeds that spec work"....yes. If the oil meets spec it meets spec.....period. If you buy pricier oils they may have additive packages in them that will add to the life of the oil and be even easier on any seals.
If it meets the manufacturers specifications it meets specifications

 

[Rockbadchild]

Lubricant analysis is a highly refined and extremely useful technology developed to the extreme in our Department of Defense. All the services use it. Failure prediction. Failure prevention, diagnosis of an incredible array of ailments. But us duffers operating farm tractors have little/no ability (or need) to get into such expensive and sophisticated tools. It may be that 5030 has found a practical source for such assists (?) I'm sure he will let us know.

By the way, to me hydraulic fluid in a tractor is primarily a hydraulic fluid and only secondarily a lubricant. Sure it is very nice to have it with lubricating qualities, some cleaning characteristics, etc. but in a lot of ways it may as well be water or kerosene or any non-compressible fluid. Brake fluid is an example.

I get your point and agree to a extent but depleted oil will generate more heat, pumping oil that is too hot and that has metal particles in it would damage the hydraulic pump or shorten its life. Other than that I agree with you but we are not only talking about hydraulics, we are talking about hydrostatic and transmission fluid so good lubrication, viscosity and the ability to absorb impurities is paramount in this case. You simply loose all of these properties with depleted oil.

 

[JWR]

I get your point and agree to a extent but depleted oil will generate more heat, pumping oil that is too hot and that has metal particles in it would damage the hydraulic pump or shorten its life. Other than that I agree with you but we are not only talking about hydraulics, we are talking about hydrostatic and transmission fluid so good lubrication, viscosity and the ability to absorb impurities is paramount in this case. You simply loose all of these properties with depleted oil.

This tractor is not hydrostatic drive. The basic design features (using the transmission oil to also be the hydraulic reservoir, etc.) are decades old and been around long before most of the currently available fluids. The transmission/chassis fluid is multi-use and covering a multitude of sins and very handy that it can serve as a pretty large sump for hydraulic purposes. Lubrication (and in very old oil, impurities) do of course matter. I have yet to hear how to test for, or know, that one is dealing with "depleted" oil or what exactly depleted oil is. Hours on the tractor give at least a reference point better than nothing I guess. Hopefully 5030 will enlighten us.

This causes me to wonder -- were the old Fords and Fergusons EVER recommended for replacing their entire sump load of oil ?

 

[rScotty]

good question... 5030 mentioned that he send his oil out to Blackstone Labs for analysis so he knows the % of life left ... I ask him to elaborate on the process but hasn't came back to us yet... I personally do change my oil every 400 to 500 hours (400h is recommended in my owner manual) and you actually see the color changing form clear to murky brown at these hours in the eye glass port so that indicate the oil is been depleted.

I couldn't care less about what percentage of tractor out there who gets services at their recommended hours but I can assure you mine dose, a good advise is to do your maintenance as your owner manual recommendation. You are in title to not do so but I also am to point out it is not a good advise.

I can see the advantage of lab tests for engine oil because the orignal values for the ingredients in the oils are known, and the wear products can be calculated from that. But for hydraulic and trans-hydraulic fluid lab tests are a different animal. It's different because unlike engine oils, those hydraulic oil formulations are trade secrets as to base oil, refining, and the types and amounts of additives.

That limits what a lab can determine. A lab could comment on some wear products, but not all of the metals or materials. And I don't see how they could comment on remaining life at all without knowing the starting values.

I kind of like the approach that JWR has back in message #25. Maybe because its a lot like my own. I buy the best trans-hydraulic oil that I can. And then.....

I CHECK THE LEVEL OFTEN, and while doing that I sometimes put a drop on a piece of blotter paper to examine more closely. Any large amount of water or metal is obvious. Other than that, unless the tractor has been sneaking off at night doing heavy construction I figure it's good to just change a filter now and then. If a person is really concerned about additive depletion, pull a gallon or two of oil out through the filler port with a drill pump. Then refill with new oil that has new additives.

Surely that program is good enough for a medium duty machine. I'm not working mine all that hard anyway, but you bet if I was working for the tractor manufacturer I'd do it differently. In that case if I didn't duck fast enough and got tasked with writing the service interval specs I would have to assume worse case duty and write specs accordingly. And that just isn't the case with mine... or JWRs.... or most of us.

rScotty