Hydraulic fluid

[Rockbadchild]

This tractor is not hydrostatic drive. The basic design features (using the transmission oil to also be the hydraulic reservoir, etc.) are decades old and been around long before most of the currently available fluids. The transmission/chassis fluid is multi-use and covering a multitude of sins and very handy that it can serve as a pretty large sump for hydraulic purposes. Lubrication (and in very old oil, impurities) do of course matter. I have yet to hear how to test for, or know, that one is dealing with "depleted" oil or what exactly depleted oil is. Hours on the tractor give at least a reference point better than nothing I guess. Hopefully 5030 will enlighten us.

This causes me to wonder -- were the old Fords and Fergusons EVER recommended for replacing their entire sump load of oil ?

my bad for the hydro static part I saw it wasn't hydro but still was under the impression that it was for some reason ... I enjoy this conversation/ argument but I am realizing you are more right than I am in this case .... but also believe if it is stated in the owner manual it is for a reason, Id like to think this reason is more then making profits ....

From this article the only way to know is through analysis its good reading...

I guess they just don't built them how they uses to??

Why Hydraulic Oil Changes Color

When hydraulic oil turns from that golden honey color of new oil to a dark brown, does that mean it must be changed immediately? Is the system suffering from lost lubricating properties or g…

www.machinerylubrication.com

 

[FERLING]

Well stated comment on cheap oils. TSC traveller caused shearing issues when hot. Loss of hydraulic pressure was final result. Replaced using Ambria NH brand issues went away. Since then NH discontinued ambria oil. Now using case IH hydraulic oil no issues. Good hydraulic oils have heat stabilization and prevent shearing in pump. They also fight off hydoscopic issues on drawing moisture (water) when tractor sits in change of season. Don’t let a budget interfere with purchasing good hydraulic oil, it will save you time and money in the long run using quality oil. Oils are not equal in performance.

Amazon.com

 

[DMW]

This tractor is not hydrostatic drive. The basic design features (using the transmission oil to also be the hydraulic reservoir, etc.) are decades old and been around long before most of the currently available fluids. The transmission/chassis fluid is multi-use and covering a multitude of sins and very handy that it can serve as a pretty large sump for hydraulic purposes. Lubrication (and in very old oil, impurities) do of course matter. I have yet to hear how to test for, or know, that one is dealing with "depleted" oil or what exactly depleted oil is. Hours on the tractor give at least a reference point better than nothing I guess. Hopefully 5030 will enlighten us.

This causes me to wonder -- were the old Fords and Fergusons EVER recommended for replacing their entire sump load of oil ?

Yes, but have you ever gone into a tractor shop and asked for an oil with a spec 10-20 years out of date? No, they only carry their latest line of products. You can do the research into non OEM fluids, but it really worth the time, or you could end up in the mess like 303 oils.
Half the lubrication properties of current fluids can be from the additive package. The additives get consumed with use (depleted). The oil may look perfectly fine, but important wear inhibitors may go missing. The only way to track it is used oil analysis. Or, just follow the manufacturers service schedule.
Side note, worked at a factory with machines using 100's of gallons of hydraulic fluid. Changing to to semi-synthetics 20 years ago reduced the change out frequency, but only after following a UOA program. They found that changing the fluid too early could result in an additive buildup in the system causing issues. By monitoring the oil life, they were able to get the maximum use out of the fluid, which was longer than the manufacturer's maintenance intervals. IMO any machine used for commercial work should be on a UOA program, the benefits far outweigh the costs.
I like watching youtube farm videos, but am amazed at how much time is taken changing fluids "just in case".

 

[California]

This causes me to wonder -- were the old Fords and Fergusons EVER recommended for replacing their entire sump load of oil ?

I've seen a photo of a brass plate 'Drain and replace motor oil daily', on a huge tractor from around 1920.

(But I don't think they had hydraulic systems that early).

 

[twowoode]

I do and will use the manufacturer oil and hydraulic fluid as long as I am under warranty. The cost difference is not so great that it would be worth arguing a warranty claim.

 

[JWR]

View attachment 763204Amazon.com

Whoa ! 6000 hours !? That's bumping up against 6 lifetimes for me at the rate I put hours on my tractor.

 

[JWR]

I do and will use the manufacturer oil and hydraulic fluid as long as I am under warranty. The cost difference is not so great that it would be worth arguing a warranty claim.

The OP and myself have the same brand/model and year MF2660HD. 2011. The warrantee is just a memory in the rear view mirror. But I understand what you are saying.

 

[DMW]

View attachment 763204Amazon.com

Quick check on BTOG for Triax after reading their spec page for this oil. Didn't seem right to me.

 

[California]

Quick check on BTOG for Triax after reading their spec page for this oil. Didn't seem right to me.

!!!! Great find!

Thanks for researching that.

 

[JWR]

Good grief! The scam artists are tiring of making telemarketing calls and gone off into selling oil...well maybe it is oil. Or air or ....maybe you will never know because nothing would be delivered !!

 

[DMW]

Good grief! The scam artists are tiring of making telemarketing calls and gone off into selling oil...well maybe it is oil. Or air or ....maybe you will never know because nothing would be delivered !!

I'm pretty sure that the company delivers their product. But what is unknown is the source of the oil. No refinery listed. Where did it come from? Do they refine it themselves, or repackage another refiners product. Just because a label says it meets spec, still requires due diligence. OEMs usually don't list detailed spec sheets as they often switch suppliers and formulations can change, but the refinery is normally listed in the MSDS. Triax seems to be located in a warehouse/cross docking/distribution facility in Texas.
TRIAX LUBRICANTS LLC
1809 W Frankford Rd #160, Carrollton, TX 75007

 

[nyone]

With out reading 6 pages..what's "not cheap" mean? Is it $200 a 5gal jug or $200 a gallon?

My NH fluid was $95 5gal pail vs $50 for tractor supply stuff. $50 difference may seam like alot but a set of brake pads or PTO clutch will cost alot more..then you have to also dump and fill.

 

[California]

I'm pretty sure that the company delivers their product. But what is unknown is the source of the oil. No refinery listed. Where did it come from? ... Triax seems to be located in a warehouse/cross docking/distribution facility in Texas.
TRIAX LUBRICANTS LLC
1809 W Frankford Rd #160, Carrollton, TX 75007

The plot thickens.
Google shows some Unit 160 tenants, not including Triax.

Selery Fulfillment, 1809 W FRANKFORD RD #160 CARROLLTON TX 75007 | Buyer Report — Panjiva

Selery Fulfillment at 1809 W FRANKFORD RD #160 CARROLLTON TX 75007. Find their customers, contact information, and details on 51 shipments.

panjiva.com

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In summary - Triax, selling only on Ebay and Amazon, is a drop-shipper of someone else's refinery. Maybe Warren or Amsoil? Their business activity is billing, not buckets. The BTOG post saying they use a licensed trademark while they are not listed as a licensee, isn't reassuring.

 

[jayhawk238]

I had been told a long time ago regular oil cannot be mixed with synthetic . True or false? If true what would be the best/easiest way to get all of the regular hydraulic oil out of the whole hydraulic system?

 

[JWR]

I had been told a long time ago regular oil cannot be mixed with synthetic . True or false? If true what would be the best/easiest way to get all of the regular hydraulic oil out of the whole hydraulic system?

There are many brands and varieties of "synthetic blend" oils being sold. Thinking about the history of it, I don't think they could have ever sold the first quart of synthetic oil if there was any serious conflict of it with normal petroleum oil. So I think the answer is FALSE. Now there may be some obscure pros and cons about mixing them but I doubt there is any substantial concern. So the easiest way to get all the regular oil out of the whole hydraulic system... is to simply ignore it. Don't bother trying.

 

[jayhawk238]

There are many brands and varieties of "synthetic blend" oils being sold. Thinking about the history of it, I don't think they could have ever sold the first quart of synthetic oil if there was any serious conflict of it with normal petroleum oil. So I think the answer is FALSE. Now there may be some obscure pros and cons about mixing them but I doubt there is any substantial concern. So the easiest way to get all the regular oil out of the whole hydraulic system... is to simply ignore it. Don't bother trying.

Thank you. I love your answer!! That makes the job so much quicker and not as messy.

 

[Williy]

I will never purchase a blend of oil as you just might
as well purchase regular oil because the regular oil
in the blend becomes useless wore out?? I prefer the
pure synthetic it might cost a little more but for the extra
hours or mileage its worth it! About the only thing I like
blended is a drink lemon & water

willy

 

[rScotty]

I will never purchase a blend of oil as you just might
as well purchase regular oil because the regular oil
in the blend becomes useless wore out?? I prefer the
pure synthetic it might cost a little more but for the extra
hours or mileage its worth it! About the only thing I like
blended is a drink lemon & water

willy

I never could figure out "blended or semi-synthetic oils".

By their own rules, the only specification the oil industry requires on trans/hydraulic oils is simple viscosity.
The industry doesn't require anything about purity, lubrication, heat resistance, additives, or compatibility.
So a blended oil could be any ratio. A splash of synthetic added to a gallon of mineral oil would be "blended", and sell for more money per gallon.

Oh... I guess I just figured it out.

rScotty

 

[California]

I replaced the fluid and filter when I bought the used 3-point backhoe. It has its own separate sump.

Then I replaced the fluid and filter after 10 years. The fluid came out clean, lightly tinted, no water. I put a sample in a jar. 2 years later that sample hasn't changed, no layers or sediment in the bottom. This backhoe is used only a few hours per year to remove orchard stumps. Seems to me that fluid could have stayed in there indefinitely.

Followup to my post a week ago. Here's the sample I set aside when I replaced the UTF in my occasional-use backhoe. Photo after standing 1.5 years, and the text I set it on for the photo is readable.

Autozone (Warren) 303 UTF after ten years use in a now 40 year old backhoe. I used a suction pump to drain the hoe's tank, no water or debris found. To me this sample indicates the fluid could have stayed in there longer.

(After reading all the criticism of 303 I used TSC's Traveller UTF for the refill).

 

[JWR]

Yep California. That is a good data point. If I ran any of my machines 1000 hr a year or something I'd be probably changing the trans fluid every time I rebuilt the engine at 5000 hrs. Since that will never happen in my lifetime,,, I'm not changing transmission fluid.