Why no Ecoboost in the F250?

[hiddentacocatneddih]

They might have ran them side by side while there was still a market with less legislation.. Generators have a single operating speed approval, which makes tuning an older engine to meet emissions at governed speed (1500rpm for 50 Hz, 1800rpm for 60 Hz) easier than a variable speed type approval.

And the Detroit series 71 was used in the HEMMT and HET while not meeting any emission norm at all... Thats why Oshkosh made a Cat C18 Euro 3 emission version for the UK... but even the US army cant get away with it anymore...

And the big Kubota isnt a Kubota, its an orange Versatile...

None of the aircraft generators had emissions equipment. Even brand new ones. Pretty sure the usaf was exempt for flightline equipment. We fed em jet fuel

They could of been new old stock but they had 0 hours with 5.9 6bt and p7100 pumps

Around 2012 ish till 2016

 

[Renze]

Well back to the original post before it got taken over by a diesel conversation..... The ecoboost is a great engine, it will handle well beyond what the F150 suspension should handle and does it at very low rpms for a gas engine.

When we asked if the 6.8 Deere would hold up, replacing the 8.3 Cummins (with its variable turbo it could deliver the responsiveness of the 8.3, and the 6068 wasnt that much lighter in weight than the CTA8.3) they asked us the average fuel consumption per hour, because they dont measure lifespan of heavy duty engines in operating hours, but in total liters of fuel burnt.

So, i guess they wont offer an Ecoboost in the F250... higher duty cycle... it would work for infrequent towing, but for commercial use... towing a medium trailer everyday, it might wear out too soon, throwing people off of the entire concept of downsized turbo engines...

EB has been around since 2015, so enough field experience for Ford to decide if the engine would handle the increased duty..

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

If the eco boost was the better deal, you would see hot shots using them. There is reason most host shots drive cummins powered trucks

 

[Renze]

If the eco boost was the better deal, you would see hot shots using them. There is reason most host shots drive cummins powered trucks

Ecoboost is great compared to a conventional gas engine, because it gives the constant torque a naturally aspirated Diesel has naturally, instead of the allmost reclining torque curve of VVT gas engines, but EB still its peak torque at 2900rpm and its peak power at 5000rpm. Thats a lot of piston travel..(thus engine wear)

With a Ram Cummins, peak power at 2900rpm, but when you lug it down to 1600rpm, torque doesnt remain the same, it actually increases from 600 to 800ft-lb

Now with a continuous duty B6.7 you get, say 232hp at 2200rpm nominal power, then when lugging it down to 1800rpm it increases power to 250hp, and when lugging down to max torque at 1500rpm it increases torque till 700 ft-lb
All other power ratings are intermittent ratings or restricted ratings, not something you expect to last as irrigation pump at full power for years on end.

By the way, i see on the Cummins website that they abandoned EGR entirely for Stage V which means they did follow the lead by the European manufacturers, after the North American tunnel vision on EGR didnt pan out so well...

 

[Renze]

Anyways, the reason this thread keeps sidetracking into light duty Diesels, is because an around 4 liter Diesel is a much better option for the 3/4 ton market.

Ford has 3.6 and 4.4 liter V8 engines available, however they might need to be tuned down a bit for medium duty work, because they are now in light duty Landrover tune...

464 Ft-lb at 2000rpm and 268hp in the 3.6 V8 would be just sweet for towing... You need the bottom end for cruising, variable valve timing gas V8s just have sports car performance at rpms where you dont want to get to when towing..

The relatively long stroke 4.4 V8 doesnt have spectacularly more torque than the 3.6 but it delivers it down to 1750rpm, so if it can live up to the EcoDiesel fuel efficiency standard by revving down and gearing up (27mpg in a Land Rover 4wd with ZF 8 speed automatic) it might be a good candidate for towing...

Fun detail is that it is already being built in the same American factory as the 6.7 powerstroke, though it is only used in the European Range Rover TDV8

Ford AJD-V6/PSA DT17 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Hay Dude]

Anyways, the reason this thread keeps sidetracking into light duty Diesels, is because an around 4 liter Diesel is a much better option for the 3/4 ton market.

Ford has 3.6 and 4.4 liter V8 engines available, however they might need to be tuned down a bit for medium duty work, because they are now in light duty Landrover tune...

464 Ft-lb at 2000rpm and 268hp in the 3.6 V8 would be just sweet for towing... You need the bottom end for cruising, variable valve timing gas V8s just have sports car performance at rpms where you dont want to get to when towing..

The relatively long stroke 4.4 V8 doesnt have spectacularly more torque than the 3.6 but it delivers it down to 1750rpm, so if it can live up to the EcoDiesel fuel efficiency standard by revving down and gearing up (27mpg in a Land Rover 4wd with ZF 8 speed automatic) it might be a good candidate for towing...

Fun detail is that it is already being built in the same American factory as the 6.7 powerstroke, though it is only used in the European Range Rover TDV8

Ford AJD-V6/PSA DT17 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

One has to wonder how much more tweaking & development will happen with any IC engines with the EV wave ready to wash over us with the chinese batteries and charging stations on the way.
I guess truck & tractor diesel technology will go on strong for another decade until those get replaced with batteries.

 

[Hay Dude]

They might have ran them side by side while there was still a market with less legislation.. Generators have a single operating speed approval, which makes tuning an older engine to meet emissions at governed speed (1500rpm for 50 Hz, 1800rpm for 60 Hz) easier than a variable speed type approval.

And the Detroit series 71 was used in the HEMMT and HET while not meeting any emission norm at all... Thats why Oshkosh made a Cat C18 Euro 3 emission version for the UK... but even the US army cant get away with it anymore...

And the big Kubota isnt a Kubota, its an orange Versatile...

I wonder if the Kubota/Versaltiles are being made in CN or EU?
Quite a contract for Versatile. The Kubota gets a 6.7L Cummins. Makes me wonder if they’ll rebadge a Versatile with the L-9 and run the Kubota’s up to 300HP

 

[Renze]

One has to wonder how much more tweaking & development will happen with any IC engines with the EV wave ready to wash over us with the chinese batteries and charging stations on the way.
I guess truck & tractor diesel technology will go on strong for another decade until those get replaced with batteries.

The Lithium price hike goes way beyond inflation, the auto industry expects 300 more mining and processing facilities are required to meet worldwide demand. Batteries are nice for city traffic where brake energy can be recuperated, but batteries will not replace IC engines in high duty cycle applications.

Politicians may dream of a battery powered world, but since supply driven renewable electricity sources demand gas turbine backup to kick in shut down to maintain a stable grid voltage during sun and wind fluctuations, (which are therefor quite less efficient than energy plants in continuous operation) the bottom line is zero gains in emission reduction and a less stable grid.

I know a farmer who has his cattle shed full of solar panels, but theres a crater in his daily generating graph, because at noon his system shuts down to prevent the grid voltage to exceed the limit... The grid just cant take the peak current his system is trying to put in.

Toyota does quite well with EVs but they keep investing in hydrogen, just in case the world decides they arent going to depend on China for raw materials, that sits on 80% of the worlds stockpile, or controls it through "debt trap diplomacy", by building infrastructure for African countries, and then taking their raw materials when they default on the loan.

Toyota doesnt want to be Betamax if the world decides to go with VHS, and personally i think the world will.

Versatile, with Cummins, is also aboard the hydrogen boat

Versatile | Tractors

Versatile Offers a Full Line of High Horsepower Tractors. Solve Your Farming needs with Versatile Today!

www.versatile-ag.com

 

[Renze]

I wonder if the Kubota/Versaltiles are being made in CN or EU?
Quite a contract for Versatile. The Kubota gets a 6.7L Cummins. Makes me wonder if they’ll rebadge a Versatile with the L-9 and run the Kubota’s up to 300HP

Engines made in the USA by Cummins. Rear ends made in Germany by ZF. Front axles i dont know if its Dana, ZF or Carraro. Assembled in Winnipeg.

I dont think they will rebadge a large MFWD Versatile, the whole idea is that Kubota has a lot of customers for smaller tractors, where Versatile is mostly known from large 4wds. The large tractors are too far from Kubotas current customers.

 

[deezler]

Renze, take a chill pill. You are man-splaining at us, lol.

China doesn't have 80% of the lithium reserves. They "process" most of the lithium for battery production, but Australia is by far the leading supplier of raw lithium.

You couldn't be more correct about the disparity between politicians desires and the reality of available EV battery supply chain though. It's a pipe dream unless we abandon environmental reviews globally and just fast-track lithium mining. Not to mention how nearly all our cobalt supply comes from kids digging underground in the Congo.

Hydrogen is interesting, since you can run it in an HD diesel engine with relatively few modifications. We're getting into testing that at my company currently . But I don't see how the infrastructure for refueling is ever going to be constructed.