TC33 Starter Problem

[Noytheyah]

Voltage drop tests only work during high current such as the starter actually turning. based on the amount of work done, and the fuses blowing. I would disconnect literally everything in the start circuit and run direct wires to a battery, and work your way back

I’ve done that, I’ve isolated the starter from the tractors wiring and still have the same issue. The only way I can get the old or new one to function properly is if it’s physically off the tractor

 

[LittleBill21]

Buy a dc amp clamp on meter, and put it on the line, since your having some kind of shorting issue, maybe the short is taking the majority of the power from the starter, which only happens once its somehow mounted, sorry, this is a bit of a mystery right now, but something is taking your power away, i would check the amperage just with it hooked up and see if its somehow shorting from it.

 

[Noytheyah]

Buy a dc amp clamp on meter, and put it on the line, since your having some kind of shorting issue, maybe the short is taking the majority of the power from the starter, which only happens once its somehow mounted, sorry, this is a bit of a mystery right now, but something is taking your power away, i would check the amperage just with it hooked up and see if its somehow shorting from it.

I’ve got one on my multi meter it’s drawing a max of 78amps. Do you know where can I find the spec on this? Turning on the glow plugs draws about 30ish amps. When I disconnect the glow plug relay starting draws about 50 amps.

 

[Noytheyah]

As if I don’t have enough difficulty trying to figure this mess out, one more issue that might be playing a role in this. My tractor is actually a TC33S. The best I can tell it’s a mid level model between the TC33 and TC33D. So, as I’m going through the wiring checking for any anomalies, and my wiring doesn’t exactly match my shop manual. The diagram that someone posted earlier seems a bit closer to mine but still different. For example, in the book the glow plug circuit starts at the ignition switch and travels directly to the glow plug bus. Mine goes to a relay then to the bus. Also, the HM13 wire is Orange in the book, mine is brown.

 

[Noytheyah]

Buy a dc amp clamp on meter, and put it on the line, since your having some kind of shorting issue, maybe the short is taking the majority of the power from the starter, which only happens once its somehow mounted, sorry, this is a bit of a mystery right now, but something is taking your power away, i would check the amperage just with it hooked up and see if its somehow shorting from it.

Ok I think I’ve done this right. My starter is 1.7kw 1700/12=142. So my question is, would 142 be the max or the rated amps for the starter? As of now I’m pulling half or less than that.

 

[LittleBill21]

It does not matter the spec, what you need to determine, is the amperage on those wire at idle with nothing running (to rule out some kind of short)

then you need to take a amperage reading with it off the tractor and with it one the tractor, and if you really want to be thorough, do it with both starters.

we are trying to determine if the amperage is changing by being mounted on the tractor, and by checking it with nothing running we are trying to see if there is some phantom load taking power from the start circuit.

 

[Noytheyah]

Ok here’s the results
Ignition off -0amps
Ignition on -1.64amp
Old starter on- 85amp
Old off -73amp
New on -72
New off -47
Glow plugs on 32 and decreasing to 23 after about 10 sec

Starter off the tractor was hooked directly to battery and on was connected to the tractors harness.

One other note, when I activate the starter it only sends a little over 10v to the solenoid. I was thinking this might play a role but if the starter is turning, that voltage wouldn’t matter, would it? The solenoid needs just enough voltage to close and hold the contact. But, I’ve isolated the start circuit and ran a jumper from the battery to the solenoid while it was mounted and it acted as if it was powered through the tractors start circuit.

 

[LittleBill21]

I hate to tell you this but those numbers are in line with what i would expect. the wiring is good, amperage did not drop, I feel you have a mechanical alignment issue, where the bendix is not even interfacing with the teeth on the fly wheel. i feel like the bendix is slamming into the face of the flywheel.

IS THE ENGINE ACTUALLY TURNING? go watch the fan belt, or is the starter just jammed into the flywheel, and doing nothing.

I know you did the tape thing, but I'm not convinced, throw baking soda or talcum power over the entire fly wheel housing and the starter and see where the bendix is actually landing when you go to start it.

 

[MTGreen]

I hate to tell you this but those numbers are in line with what i would expect. the wiring is good, amperage did not drop, I feel you have a mechanical alignment issue, where the bendix is not even interfacing with the teeth on the fly wheel. i feel like the bendix is slamming into the face of the flywheel.

IS THE ENGINE ACTUALLY TURNING? go watch the fan belt, or is the starter just jammed into the flywheel, and doing nothing.

I know you did the tape thing, but I'm not convinced, throw baking soda or talcum power over the entire fly wheel housing and the starter and see where the bendix is actually landing when you go to start it.

Another thought is you could potentially take the solenoid off the starter and manually pull the engagement lever with no power applied and by taking the starter on and off and manipulating that lever you should be able to figure out if the gears are actually meshing like they're supposed to.
Something else that occurred to me is judging from the pictures earlier on in the thread, is there a possibility that the starter can be installed clocked 180°?

 

[MTGreen]

Another thing is you could put your finger on the solenoid when you go to crank it and you'll be able to feel if that solenoid is actuating or not