Air show collision: B17 and P63

[MossRoad]

Doesn't take long for Wikipedia to update.

Here's some info on the B-17 that was involved.

Texas Raiders - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[plowhog]

I'm also certain they are flying with no restrictions or very, very limited restrictions in regards to safety.

The FAA prescribes extensive restrictions on airshow pilots. That includes special certifications, altitude restrictions, restriction of flight over people, stands, and crowds, etc.

Notice that no one on the ground was killed or injured. That was not just a weird coincidence. The aircraft were not over the spectator areas due to the many restrictions that apply.

This is also why the accident a few years ago in Reno, NV was unusual. It involved people in the grandstands-- what the restrictions are in place to prevent. A close friend of mine barely survived being a spectator there.

 

[JasperFrank]

Just amazing how the entire wing of the B17 separated from the fuselage. In all of the war film footage of B17s taking on damage, never seen anything like that.

 

[ruffdog]

Just amazing how the entire wing of the B17 separated from the fuselage. In all of the war film footage of B17s taking on damage, never seen anything like that.

The P63 actually cut the fuselage off right behind the wing. The wing and front fuselage then fell together.

 

[4570Man]

Just amazing how the entire wing of the B17 separated from the fuselage. In all of the war film footage of B17s taking on damage, never seen anything like that.

I was surprised it broke completely in half in a low speed crash.

 

[ovrszd]

As ruffdog remarked, the fighter sliced the fuselage in two.

I didn't mean to imply that FAA doesn't enforce restrictions at airshows. My comment was in regards to allowing two aircraft to fly that close together. The Fighter Pilot lost orientation as to the location of the Bomber when in his blind spot. Their close proximity facilitated the contact.

My Dad was a ground crew member in support of the Eight Air Force stationed in England during WWII. I grew up hearing stories of the B17 Flying Fortress and the B24 Liberator. When Dad returned to the States after the War it was in a B17.

 

[stuckmotor]

A Flying Fortress and a Douglas C-47 Skytrain also called Dakota came to our tiny local airport many years ago. The event might have been called a display. If there was a show, I missed it. The Dakota happened to fly , past my house on the way in. It flew so low I was afraid it was about to crash and was relieved to find it safe and sound when we got to the airport.

The thing that impressed me about the Flying Fortress was how little space it had inside. I guess payload area was sacrificed for armament and that's what made it a fortress.

 

[TractorTYMe]

Such a tragic loss of lives and historic WWII birds, I got a ride in Sentimental Journey this summer when the Commemorate Air Fore came through in NW MT this summer with a B17 and a B25 Mitchell.

 

[Tntcwg3]

I just read about that. At the time of the article they had no idea how many people were on the planes, or if anyone on the ground was caught in the crash.

5 on the b-17 and the pilot on the P-63, no ground injuries. Sending prayers for their families.

 

[ArlyA]

I've been in a b-17 or two over the years which makes be wonder if this was one. I like to check them out since my uncle was lost while fighting in one off the Dutch coast and his plane was never recovered. Sad, sad loss of life.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Went to an airshow about 10 years ago; was walking across the tarmac and spotted a B-17 with a sign nearby, which said something "Rides...$180". There was a guy, with a noticeable limp, walking nearby, and I said to him "Look at that...you can get a ride in that old warbird for $180".
He didn't flinch, change his gaze or his pace. His answer? "I don't want a ride. That's how I got this limp...in one like that, over Sweinfort in 1943".

 

[MossRoad]

Back in the early 80's some group, probably the Confederate Air Force (that was their name back then), brought a B-17 and the B-29 FIFI in to South Bend for a couple weeks between air shows somewhere else in the country. While they were here, they did walkthroughs and rides to raise money. They had some problems with the B-17 and had our shop mechanics work on it. They wanted to take it up for a test fly and offered me a ride. I differed and offered my seat to a coworker who was a bit older than me out of respect. So he hops in with a couple mechanics and an avionics guy and off they go. Had a blast.

However, upon landing, they slammed the tail down so hard that it drove the tail wheel up into the fuselage and damaged it. My coworker said it was a tremendous jolt and the plane bounced .

So it spent a few more weeks at our place while that was repaired.

After that, my coworker was able to truthfully tell people that he survived a B-17 crash landing.

 

[orezok]

 

[MossRoad]

Just a note that none of those incidents listed involve 2 airplanes colliding like the one last weekend.

 

[Sigarms]

The FAA prescribes extensive restrictions on airshow pilots. That includes special certifications, altitude restrictions, restriction of flight over people, stands, and crowds, etc.

Notice that no one on the ground was killed or injured. That was not just a weird coincidence. The aircraft were not over the spectator areas due to the many restrictions that apply.

This is also why the accident a few years ago in Reno, NV was unusual. It involved people in the grandstands-- what the restrictions are in place to prevent. A close friend of mine barely survived being a spectator there.

How did two aircraft fly in so close to one another to cause such a crash if so many restrictions apply?

For myself, that is the common sense question.

Now, if it a group of pilots who fly together to perform stunts, I could see flying so close. However, we have two distinct different type of aircraft in this accident.

Sad day for those families involved for certain.

 

[bcp]

Bruce

 

[plowhog]

How did two aircraft fly in so close to one another to cause such a crash if so many restrictions apply?

Very legitimate question. Some probably know the answer already, but I have not yet heard it.

What is more of a concern for me is the differential in speed while flying at the same or similar altitude. To me, that was an obvious factor. If the two planes were traveling at similar speeds I doubt this would have happened.

The speed differential is a known source of problems. It's why most uncontrolled airports have a traffic pattern altitude of 800' or 1,000' above the runway for piston aircraft, and typically 1,500' above the runway for turbine aircraft. The turbine aircraft are operating at faster speeds.

 

[ArlyA]

Seems those P-63's had horrid downward visibility and he had his wing in the way of seeing the B-17.

 

[kenmbz]

Another member on TBN knew the B17 pilot.
Very sad indeed, they had no chance after the collision.

 

[MossRoad]

How did two aircraft fly in so close to one another to cause such a crash if so many restrictions apply?

For myself, that is the common sense question.

Now, if it a group of pilots who fly together to perform stunts, I could see flying so close. However, we have two distinct different type of aircraft in this accident.

Sad day for those families involved for certain.

It'll probably come down to what it almost always comes down to...

Pilot error.

That's not to say I'm laying the blame on anyone or commenting on their skills, it's just a fact of life. The majority of incidents are pilot error. Some are mechanical malfunctions. Some are health related. But most are pilot error.

Think about most car accidents. Driver error (inattention, drinking, sleep deprivation, etc.).

Having been around airplanes and airports the first half of my life, I've known of many incidents involving aircraft and deaths. I personally knew about 8 pilots that died in aircraft. 2 of them were not pilot error. The equipment on the ground told them they were in one place in the air when in fact there was a mountain between them and the airport. They were exonerated. The rest were pilot error.