Tractor not starting

[bewildered]

I have a Case 480 LL tractor that won't start. Started great for 30 years now can't get to fire, even with either! Have replaced injectors
and rubber seals throughout the fuel system. Roosemaster pump has been rebuilt. cranks over great but won't fire. Bled air out of system.
Am at a loss on what I can do to get started.

 

[jshwhite]

Are you getting steady fuel at the injector when you crank it and crack the nut at the injector line? (It's helpful to have two people for this job.)

 

[LouNY]

Any smoke out the exhaust while cranking?
If no smoke = no fuel getting into cylinders,
or not at the right time.
Usually no fuel.
Could also check that the air intake is not obstructed.

 

[super55]

With a shot of ether into the intake you would think it would at least have one or two cylinders fire. At that point its making me wonder if its not fuel related and instead air or compression.

Almost sounds like valve timing is off.

 

[thepumpguysc]

When u put the pump on, was the drive shaft in the engine already.??
If yes, u might be 180* out of time..
There is a DOT on the end of the drive shaft..
There is also a DOT inside the pump..
The pump MUST GO ON DOT TO DOT.. to ensure proper pump to engine timing..

 

[bewildered]

Are you getting steady fuel at the injector when you crank it and crack the nut at the injector line? (It's helpful to have two people for this job.)

yes, am getting steady fuel to injectors, have done that procedure multiple times.

 

[bewildered]

Any smoke out the exhaust while cranking?
If no smoke = no fuel getting into cylinders,
or not at the right time.
Usually no fuel.
Could also check that the air intake is not obstructed.

Yes I am getting smoke, air intake is clear, I did check that as well

 

[bewildered]

When u put the pump on, was the drive shaft in the engine already.??
If yes, u might be 180* out of time..
There is a DOT on the end of the drive shaft..
There is also a DOT inside the pump..
The pump MUST GO ON DOT TO DOT.. to ensure proper pump to engine timing..

Good point, I did have some help with this, my brother has been a tractor mechanic his whole life and walked me through this step and also rebuilt the pump for me. But now I'm tempted to check it but reluctant to go through the hassle to remove and re-install.

 

[alexpops]

When did it start having problems? Glow plugs heating up?

 

[bewildered]

With a shot of ether into the intake you would think it would at least have one or two cylinders fire. At that point its making me wonder if its not fuel related and instead air or compression.

Almost sounds like valve timing is off.

How would I check that? I did pop the valve cover to see if maybe I had a valve sticking, but everything looked to be operating, even checked the valve/ rocker arm clearance according to the sticker on the cover and that checked out as well.

 

[bewildered]

When did it start having problems? Glow plugs heating up?

The crazy thing is, I never had a problem starting until now. Parked it after last snow in the spring, went to use it a week later for one last fluke snow and it wouldn't start. No glow plugs as well. it would just crank but not fire. Changed out fuel filters first, then bled injectors still no fire. The weird thing is that it won't fire with either.

 

[alexpops]

I don't know that machine, but from a quick search on the engine (188D) it shows 4 "heat" plugs in the intake & a heat plug troubleshooter. If you only run this in the winter, could it be a bad relay/short/mouse issue? If you're getting compression & fuel only thing left in my mind is heat.

https://www.jensales.com/content/ppp/case-188d-engine-service-manual.pdf

 

[Gator6x4]

Time to remove the pump and check the timing. If fuel is being sent to the injectors as your test indicates to continue cranking will load the cylinders with fuel which could result in hydro lock or piston wall damage. One test you can do is remove the number one injector, re-attach the fuel line and use vice grip plier and attach the injector to a bucket and see if the pump has sufficient pressure to fire the injector.

I know nothing about how to time the pump on your Case so I called a OLD Diesel head.

He advised going from memory the pump is timed as a previous poster stated. He also advised the unit is not lock timed like new engines are what ever that means. He advised there are two marks under the pomp timing cover with two screws in it. He advised these marks should be aligned before the pump is removed. If this was not done and the pump is being reinstalled to align the shat end dot with the rotor drive groove dot and install the pump. He also advised the timing needs to be set after installing the pump and the timing should be 6 degrees BTDC not TDC. He also advise there should be a label on the valve cover giving the correct timing information BTDC or TDC and the timing number.

He also advised he would need his old workshop notes which he no longer had before advising on how to time the engine.

 

[super55]

How would I check that? I did pop the valve cover to see if maybe I had a valve sticking, but everything looked to be operating, even checked the valve/ rocker arm clearance according to the sticker on the cover and that checked out as well.

Easiest way to do this pull the front gear case cover off and make sure all your tick marks on the gears are aligned. If you didn't go to deep into the engine then the camshaft gear should be synced correctly with the crankshaft unless it jumped gear. Here's a pic of typical alignment. If you had to remove the pump gear & idler gear and re-installed without proper syncing to the pump it will never start because likely your injection is way off in relation to your compression.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I’m confused.. has the engine ran AFTER the pump rebuild.?? If yes, timing isn’t the problem.. if it was 180 out of time, it wouldn’t have ran.
If the machine sat, chances are the inside of the pump is gummed up..

 

[zzvyb6]

Pull the valve cover and see if you have a set of stuck open valves. Biodiesel does this if it sits for a month. My Ford 3000 got stuck injector plungers, too, bent them, of course...

 

[Gator6x4]

I’m confused.. has the engine ran AFTER the pump rebuild.?? If yes, timing isn’t the problem.. if it was 180 out of time, it wouldn’t have ran.
If the machine sat, chances are the inside of the pump is gummed up..

Don’t think the engine has ran since the pump rebuild. I also think the OP said it would not start which prompted the pump rebuild by his brother.

Read posts # 1 and 8. Post 11 will tell you how it has been since the unit ran. I interpret the post, post 11 as late spring was the last time the unit actually ran.

 

[bewildered]

Time to remove the pump and check the timing. If fuel is being sent to the injectors as your test indicates to continue cranking will load the cylinders with fuel which could result in hydro lock or piston wall damage. One test you can do is remove the number one injector, re-attach the fuel line and use vice grip plier and attach the injector to a bucket and see if the pump has sufficient pressure to fire the injector.

I know nothing about how to time the pump on your Case so I called a OLD Diesel head.

He advised going from memory the pump is timed as a previous poster stated. He also advised the unit is not lock timed like new engines are what ever that means. He advised there are two marks under the pomp timing cover with two screws in it. He advised these marks should be aligned before the pump is removed. If this was not done and the pump is being reinstalled to align the shat end dot with the rotor drive groove dot and install the pump. He also advised the timing needs to be set after installing the pump and the timing should be 6 degrees BTDC not TDC. He also advise there should be a label on the valve cover giving the correct timing information BTDC or TDC and the timing number.

He also advised he would need his old workshop notes which he no longer had before advising on how to time the engine.

Thank you! Talking with my brother I believe that is what I need to do. I did do as advised and removed the cover and aligned the 2 marks before removing the pump for rebuild. First thing is to make sure it is at number 1 cylinder before removing to double check that it is sending fuel at the correct time. As luck would have it I can't remember for sure if I lined up both dots, I remember seeing the one on the drive shaft but don't know if I double checked the pump side. I was so excited that I actually got it installed without wrinkling the rubber seals that I may have overlooked it. So, back to the beginning and remove the pump and start over.

 

[bewildered]

I’m confused.. has the engine ran AFTER the pump rebuild.?? If yes, timing isn’t the problem.. if it was 180 out of time, it wouldn’t have ran.
If the machine sat, chances are the inside of the pump is gummed up..

No, it hasn't fired, it turns over great and almost wants to start but just not quite. After the pump was rebuilt I installed and have been trying to get started since so no chance of it being gummed up.

 

[bewildered]

Pull the valve cover and see if you have a set of stuck open valves. Biodiesel does this if it sits for a month. My Ford 3000 got stuck injector plungers, too, bent them, of course...

I removed the valve cover and checked that, and they appear to be operating properly. fortunately these are pencil injectors and purchased brand new so hopefully I won't have that problem.