No start condition Massey Ferguson 1260

[rzide]

Hello all,

We have had a Massey Ferguson gear drive tractor in the family for years without issue. It has sat for a while until recently. It has a newer battery on it, and will start very well if I jump from the battery to the starter

However, when I turn the key and try to start it (engage the starter) it doesn't turn. When the key is turned to "on" the fuel pump starts working and glow plugs etc.

When I turn it past that, the lights dim, fuel gauge and temp gauge start dropping, but nothing turns over. I believe the fuel and temp gauge always did this on start up but cannot remember. The headlights or dash lights merely dim like it's trying to do something but it doesn't turn, no clicks or anything.


I've checked all the fuses I can see and checked the back of the key switch and nothing looks corroded. I made sure pto was off, out of all gears, clutch in or out, no combination of things seems to affect it.

At this point I'm stumped, albeit not a mechanic or very smart tractor owner.

Any help would be appreciated on what to check. Many thanks.

 

[LouNY]

Corroded battery cables.

 

[Harry in Ky]

If your problem was battery or cable related it wouldn't crank by jumping at the starter. I have a book on that tractor somewhere with the wiring diagrams. If you're still working on this, maybe I can help.

 

[LouNY]

If your problem was battery or cable related it wouldn't crank by jumping at the starter. I have a book on that tractor somewhere with the wiring diagrams. If you're still working on this, maybe I can help.

Hello all,

We have had a Massey Ferguson gear drive tractor in the family for years without issue. It has sat for a while until recently. It has a newer battery on it, and will start very well if I jump from the battery to the starter

It starts when he jumps from the battery to the starter

However, when I turn the key and try to start it (engage the starter) it doesn't turn. When the key is turned to "on" the fuel pump starts working and glow plugs etc.

When I turn it past that, the lights dim, fuel gauge and temp gauge start dropping, but nothing turns over. I believe the fuel and temp gauge always did this on start up but cannot remember. The headlights or dash lights merely dim like it's trying to do something but it doesn't turn, no clicks or anything.

Low current draws everything works fine,
however when trying to crank it over for a start it dims the lights, and does not crank,
NOT enough current making it through the cables.

I've checked all the fuses I can see and checked the back of the key switch and nothing looks corroded. I made sure pto was off, out of all gears, clutch in or out, no combination of things seems to affect it.

At this point I'm stumped, albeit not a mechanic or very smart tractor owner.

Any help would be appreciated on what to check. Many thanks.

It's killing the lights when trying to crank with the switch, it is not getting the voltage and current through the cables.
When he uses a jumper cable to bypass the battery cables it starts.

 

[IndyJay]

Hello all,

We have had a Massey Ferguson gear drive tractor in the family for years without issue. It has sat for a while until recently. It has a newer battery on it, and will start very well if I jump from the battery to the starter

However, when I turn the key and try to start it (engage the starter) it doesn't turn. When the key is turned to "on" the fuel pump starts working and glow plugs etc.

When I turn it past that, the lights dim, fuel gauge and temp gauge start dropping, but nothing turns over. I believe the fuel and temp gauge always did this on start up but cannot remember. The headlights or dash lights merely dim like it's trying to do something but it doesn't turn, no clicks or anything.


I've checked all the fuses I can see and checked the back of the key switch and nothing looks corroded. I made sure pto was off, out of all gears, clutch in or out, no combination of things seems to affect it.

At this point I'm stumped, albeit not a mechanic or very smart tractor owner.

Any help would be appreciated on what to check. Many thanks.

My 1250 did that and after checking everything suggested here, bought a new starter. Same thing.
Bought a new ignition switch, problem solved.

You say you can short across the solenoid from large battery lug to small solenoid terminal and it will crank nicely?
I actually wired up a momentary contact switch temporarily until my new ignition switch arrived.

 

[rzide]

If your problem was battery or cable related it wouldn't crank by jumping at the starter. I have a book on that tractor somewhere with the wiring diagrams. If you're still working on this, maybe I can help.

That would be great, I'd appreciate anything I can get!

It starts when he jumps from the battery to the starter


Low current draws everything works fine,
however when trying to crank it over for a start it dims the lights, and does not crank,
NOT enough current making it through the cables.


It's killing the lights when trying to crank with the switch, it is not getting the voltage and current through the cables.
When he uses a jumper cable to bypass the battery cables it starts.

Ithe lights stay lit, just dim down to clarify. I will replace the cables thanks for the input!

My 1250 did that and after checking everything suggested here, bought a new starter. Same thing.
Bought a new ignition switch, problem solved.

You say you can short across the solenoid from large battery lug to small solenoid terminal and it will crank nicely?
I actually wired up a momentary contact switch temporarily until my new ignition switch arrived.

When I jump it, I go straight from the positive terminal on the battery, to the cable connection on the starter. I don't see any solenoids on the positive side of the battery/cables.... Maybe I should look harder as I want looking for any but definitely don't remember seeing any. I had planned on getting a new switch as the key won't come out so thank you for that!


Thanks everyone so far!

 

[Hoss710]

sounds like that battery in the tractor may have a shorted cell.

 

[rzide]

Updated:

I replaced the key/ignition switch with zero improvement. I found a blown fuse that apparently controls the dummy lights in the dash which now work.

After checking all wiring and other fuses that appeared good, I jumped it from the battery to starter as I have to. This time it cranked slow. I am unsure if it's because I had the key on for so long trying to diagnose, this running the glow plugs/pump?

When it runs, I now have the battery light illuminated. My plan is to replace the battery and go from there. I am concerned why it would start by jumping and not by key if the battery was dying?

I believe my second concern would be the transmission safety switch? I think that's the only one still operations as I've bypassed the seat switch. Any input on how to bypass all the switches or each individual switch would be helpful.

Thanks all.

 

[LouNY]

When you jump from the battery to the starter are you going to the battery lug on the solenoid or directly to the starter hot lead?
When you jump from the battery to the starter or solenoid you are bypassing the battery feed to the starter.
The safety switches usually only inhibit the key start cycle, in which case a screw driver or short jumper from the battery to solenoid should start the tractor.
I still believe that you have a bad battery cable or connection which you are bypassing with your jumper cable.
And now with your battery light illuminated it tells us your alternator is not charging, not that your battery is necessarily bad.

If this is your starter, are you putting your jumper cable on the stud visible on the right side of the picture, then using your key to start?
The plug in lead above the stud is were the voltage signal from the key should be going to start your tractor. It is also were a were a small jumper from the battery should crank your engine over.

 

[rzide]

I am gong directly from the positive battery terminal to the "plug in" wire above the battery cable lug on the starter. I leave the key on, touch the plug with the charged jumper wire, and the tractor starts.

 

[WranglerX]

I am gong directly from the positive battery terminal to the "plug in" wire above the battery cable lug on the starter. I leave the key on, touch the plug with the charged jumper wire, and the tractor starts.

By directly energizing solenoid, it indicates there is either a bad connection or bad relay or safety switch between terminal on starter and ignition switch....

Also battery light on would probably indicate the generator/alternator is not putting out a charge voltage to battery....

 

[Harry in Ky]

From what I see in the wiring diagram the start signal from the key switch passes through a safety start relay. It's a normally open circuit. The relay is energized by an ignition circuit when the key switch is on. That signal flows through the PTO switch, then through the main shift neutral switch, through the relay coil to ground. If that relay is not energized, the start signal from the key switch only goes that far. It has no path to the starter. That sounds to me like where you are. I would be looking for that relay. Maybe do a little testing on the related wires in and out of it.

 

[Little Red Tractor]

It does sound like that relay. Going through all the battery cable connections, though is never a bad idea. I had a shop teacher, more years ago than I'd care to remember, who told us often, "to get a good electrical connection, get a good mechanical connection." I have proven him right many times.

 

[IndyJay]

Does it start when you jump across here? This is where I mentioned that I temporarily added a momentary contact switch with long leads while waiting for the new ignition switch. This will test your battery connections and grounds. This will also test the starter solenoid where jumping straight from battery to starter lug will not. I've used this switched jumper setup as a remote start when working on fuel injection issues when I didn't have someone that could sit on the tractor and hit the key. This is not a permanent solution since it can be dangerous because the tractor is no longer "thinking" for you.

This bypasses all safety switches,
make sure it is in neutral, PTO disengaged etc before pushing the button.

 

[rzide]

Yes it starts jumping that way. It has to be a relay or something at this point. Testing all of that is above my skill level however. I guess it's off to the shop unfortunately

I ordered an alternator but it has the lug off to the side instead of the top like the one I have and my cable doesn't reach. It seems all the replacement alternators show this side lug however so that's the new issue.

Thanks all!

 

[IndyJay]

Going back through the thread, I did not see you mention the seat safety switch. Did you check that? There is also a safety switch for the clutch and PTO. DId you confirm that the PTO is disengaged, both the lever and switch if it has one?