Managing electric usage for the "Time of Day" rates?

[LD1]

I don't write the rate system, I just live with it.

Frankly, I have no problem with it. EV charging is a high peak load. There are not many other household items that come close to that demand, and those that do tend to be significantly shorter duration (cooking in an electric oven or running an electric clothes dryer). I can readily understand them offering incentives for people to shift that load to less critical times: It makes use of idle capacity in off-peak times, and saves them the steep expense of engaging their peaking generation sources.

IF its just incentivizing people to charge (use electric) during off peak hours at a discount.....the discount should apply to everyone.

Hence the topic that started the whole post. Charge less for hours outside of 3p-7p. And during those hours charge a premium.
However.....it should apply to EVERYONE, and EVERY KwH. The discount shouldnt be just for those charging an EV.

I drive a saturn that gets 35-40mpg.....others drive a truck or sports car that gets 15mpg. We pay the same rate per gallon.

The rate should be indifferent from what it is used for.

I can easily see a way for someone handy with electric.....to use their power supply for their car charger to power other high wattage items at a discount. What would stop someone from running their HVAC or water heater off their EV supply during non-peak times at a steep discount?

Maybe I am wrong, but as far as I know, the electric company only has a way to measure kwh used. And not whether the kwh are consumed by a charger, or a furnace, or a light bulb

 

[John_Mc]

IF its just incentivizing people to charge (use electric) during off peak hours at a discount.....the discount should apply to everyone.

Hence the topic that started the whole post. Charge less for hours outside of 3p-7p. And during those hours charge a premium.
However.....it should apply to EVERYONE, and EVERY KwH. The discount shouldnt be just for those charging an EV.

I drive a saturn that gets 35-40mpg.....others drive a truck or sports car that gets 15mpg. We pay the same rate per gallon.

The rate should be indifferent from what it is used for.

I can easily see a way for someone handy with electric.....to use their power supply for their car charger to power other high wattage items at a discount. What would stop someone from running their HVAC or water heater off their EV supply during non-peak times at a steep discount?

Maybe I am wrong, but as far as I know, the electric company only has a way to measure kwh used. And not whether the kwh are consumed by a charger, or a furnace, or a light bulb

I'm not sure how the electric utility controls things for that EV rate schedule.

I do know that for the setup to get the free charger, they did not control the power to the charger, and there is no sensor on the 240V circuit. They control the charger itself (which is why they require a reliable internet connection to the charger). The charger communicates with the EV. They know exactly how much energy has been delivered to the EV.

I would assume the rate schedule control things the same way.

At one point, they did a similar thing for electric water heaters and other large electric loads: They'd give you a break if you hooked those loads up to something that let them shut it down during problem peaks in usage. I have no idea if it is still in existence.

 

[mrmikey]

Complete BS. And if you think your electric company is "actually" giving you a discount, you are delusional.

Agree 100%.
If you look at the rates I posted a few posts back, they also charge you $9 more a month for the privlige of accessing it as well as higher than normal rates for normal times. As well, it's only available if you have electric thermal storage.
If there was no additional charge I'd sign up in a minute. I'd put a timer on my water heater and dry clothes at the cheaper rates.
They're in it to make money not do us a favor.

 

[ddbackhoe]

I'm not sure how the electric utility controls things for that EV rate schedule.

I do know that for the setup to get the free charger, they did not control the power to the charger, and there is no sensor on the 240V circuit. They control the charger itself (which is why they require a reliable internet connection to the charger). The charger communicates with the EV. They know exactly how much energy has been delivered to the EV.

I would assume the rate schedule control things the same way.

At one point, they did a similar thing for electric water heaters and other large electric loads: They'd give you a break if you hooked those loads up to something that let them shut it down during problem peaks in usage. I have no idea if it is still in existence.

smoke and mirrors. Kinda like the “free” ev charging stations. If and when they get everyone in an ev, think they’ll be “free” then?

 

[Oaktree]

I ditched the Time Of Day rate when my state deregulated the power industry. I can now shop for the best rates and stay away from the TOD suppliers.

Unfortunately, only half the states in the US are currently deregulated:

Be careful what you wish for. I live in one of those "deregulated" states, and our electric rates are one of the highest in the country. The state's largest utility raised their rates 119% last summer, and most every one else followed suit.

I've occasionally looked at alternate providers, and the differences are minor. Probably 60% of my electric bill is "delivery charges", and those are either fixed costs or based on kWh used, so they're constant. Saving a penny or two on energy cost might save me $15 a year. Plus, many of those "alternate providers " are here today, gone tomorrow.

 

[Oaktree]

My utility offered a free level 2 charger for people who purchased a new battery-electric vehicle. This was the real reason I involved them in the first place. They delivered on that, with a quality charger from a name brand provider shipped to my home. I did not pay much attention to the electric rate business, since it was not my focus.

Complete BS. And if you think your electric company is "actually" giving you a discount, you are delusional. It isnt costing them a penny on their bottom line. They are just charging MORE for every other KWH to compensate.

I'm with LD1 on that. Never mind the tax incentives that are given for EV purchases, and not all states have a mechanism in place to cover road use taxes on non-ICE vehicles. All you're doing is making others pick up your share of the costs.

Man, I'm glad I live on this side of the river.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Be careful what you wish for. I live in one of those "deregulated" states, and our electric rates are one of the highest in the country. The state's largest utility raised their rates 119% last summer, and most every one else followed suit.

I've occasionally looked at alternate providers, and the differences are minor. Probably 60% of my electric bill is "delivery charges", and those are either fixed costs or based on kWh used, so they're constant. Saving a penny or two on energy cost might save me $15 a year. Plus, many of those "alternate providers " are here today, gone tomorrow.

Unfortunately, this can be quite true. Like everything else, it's buyer beware.

I'm fortunate to live in a state where shopping for the best electric rates saved me a lot over the years. You need to check frequently for the best rates and read the fine print before choosing.

Collusion, or price fixing, is always a possibility but in my state anyway, it's closely watched by the AG.

I suppose it all depends on where you live and how much time you're willing to spend shopping for the best rates.

 

[John_Mc]

I'm with LD1 on that. Never mind the tax incentives that are given for EV purchases, and not all states have a mechanism in place to cover road use taxes on non-ICE vehicles. All you're doing is making others pick up your share of the costs.

Man, I'm glad I live on this side of the river.

Not sure how it works in your state, but that's not how it works here.

By shifting heavy uses to off peak hours, it is saving the saving the utilities money. If our utility saves money, the ratepayers save money: Our regulated utility basically operates on a "cost plus" basis (their rates are based on their costs plus what the regulators feel to be a reasonable profit). Peak generation is expensive - a LOT more expensive than the utilities base load generation. The incentive offered to those who are on the special non-peak rate for the power used to charge their EVs does not come even close to claiming all that is saved by the utility. In fact, those who are set up to load-shift to off peak hours are subsidizing other rate payers.

The off-peak EV rate here is $0.14274/kWh
If I chose to "opt out" and charge during one of those peak events where they would otherwise disable my charger, the rate is $0.73388/kWh (no, that's not a typo. It's more than 5 times the rate charged for off-peak EV charging.)

 

[TheMan419]

You aren't seeing much about wifi outlets and the like because outside heating (like furnaces, hot water, dishwashers, space heaters, clothes dryers, stoves, ovens) and cooling (like AC and ice makers) there just isn't much that both uses enough electricity to be worth the effort (NOT TVs, computers, stereos, LED lights) and can be effectively time shifted (NOT welders, compressors, fridges, freezers, blower motors, pumps).

Plus the WiFi outlet uses some amount of power even when turned "off" because it has to be in standby mode waiting for the command to turn on. We have a couple of them for convenience not power saving. They are handy.

 

[Jchonline]

SE Michigan. There are the basic things, like programming the AC to stay off during those hours. I'm curious about how far most people go to cut usage and what methods there are for turning off dumb devices.

Cut AC during the hottest 4 hours of the day? Where did that suggestion come from? Ill tell my 87 year old mother on Oxygen that she needs to turn off her AC from 3-7 because the idiots in the city need to charge their EVs. She lives in TX, where it is 105+ in the Summer months.