~50~60Hp compact cabbed tractor with a good loader and lots of stability?

[2manyrocks]

The guys who cut steer slopes here have dual rear tires. I suppose checking into the option of adding dual rears would also be something to consider when shopping.

 

[Sid Post]

I know the problem, and have a solution that worked for me....probably not a universal fix, though. But I have an old Ag tractor that has wheels on both ends that can be spread out until the tractor has approximently the same look and stability as a horned frog.

It's old two cylinder JD530 series Ag tractor - originally for 20 to 40 acre corn and vegetables - with adjustable front and rear wheels. Rears are power adjustable for width but fronts you have to wrestle out.

The front and rear can be made to be ridiculously wide. The tractor only has 32 hp, but they made larger ones. I doubt this is special to JD. Chances are a lot of older Ag tractors in the utility 30 to 60 hp size were used for truck and crops were available with wide adjustable width.

This JD530 one weights right at 7500 lbs. 4 speed, manual shift, factory power steering. The loader easily handles a ton or more. The 3pt is cat II with draft and has hand cranks for adjustment, the PTO is independent and clutched, and the hydraulics are high flow. Seat is sprung and damped.

Nice old tractor, and you simply can't tip it over. Maybe there is something similar in your neck of the woods.
rScotty

I grew up with a JD 730 "Wheatland" tractor that saw a lot of mowing with me in the seat with a heavy-duty "brush hog"; AKA rotary cutter!

 

[Sid Post]

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Tractor capability is more closely correlated to tractor weight than any other single (1) specification.

The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to first identify potential tractor applications, then, through consulataton, establish bare tractor weight necessary to safely accomplish your applications. Tractor dealers, experienced tractor owners and TractorByNet.com are sources for weight recommendations.

• post hole digger
• bush hog (AKA rotary cutter) so at least 35Hp PTO as a hard minimum
• heavy loader work
• big round bale movements (not stacking)
  buckets of wet soil
  Skid Steer pallet forks with moderately heavy loads like pallets of range cubes or half pallets of concrete

Sufficient tractor weight is more important for most tractor applications than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, a significant tractor capability increase requires a bare tractor weight increase of 50%. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Kubota L4600​

2011 - 2014 Standard L Series Compact Utility tractor

Kubota L4600 Weight
2WD gear :	3,109 lbs 1410 kg
4WD gear :	3,186 lbs 1445 kg
4WD hydro :	3,197 lbs 1450 kg

Dimensions
2WD Wheelbase:	72.8 inches 184 cm
4WD Wheelbase:	72.6 inches 184 cm
2WD Length:	122.8 inches 311 cm
4WD Length:	117.9 inches 299 cm
Width:	62.4 inches 158 cm
Height:	91.7 inches 232 cm
Ground clearance:	15.2 inches

When considering a tractor purchase bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third, rear wheel/tire ballast fourth.

You need a 5,000 to 6,000 pound bare weight tractor. These are the heaviest tractors in the compact tractor category. Engine will generate 60 to 100 horsepower. This weight tractor will rut wet ground.

Width will be 72" to 84" in standard configuration. Almost all will have adjustable rear wheel/tire widths.

A cab will add 700 pounds to bare tractor weight. Cab air conditioning will absorb approximately 5-horsepower on hot days.

Massey Ferguson 5711​

2017 - 5700 Series Utility tractor

Dimensions
Wheelbase	95.7 inches 243 cm
Width	70.7 inches* 179 cm
ROPS Weight	9195 lbs 4170 kg
Cab Weight	10011 lbs 4540 kg

Absolutely! Tractor weight matters as does where the weight comes from (i.e. front and rear destruction).

Width, especially related to the overall length is also a big factor in tractor stability.

On the surface, my L-4600 looks good but, the rear end of the tractor lacks enough weight to be safe for use at the upper end of its 'working range' on anything other than perfectly flat hard surfaces (i.e. hard-packed soil or gravel areas and similar). This isn't meant to say the Kubota L-4600 is a bad tractor, just that many people with limited experience suggest it is capable of much more than it really is but they never work it that hard so the issue is moot in most cases.

 

[Sid Post]

If you have a Deutz dealer near you check out the 5080D 75 hp

5D Keyline - Deutz-Fahr America

deutz-fahramerica.com

willy

Other than JD and Kubota, brand options fall off pretty hard locally, though TYM and Mahindra aren't too hard to find.

 

[Sid Post]

Congrats on your pick. Which dealer did you use?

Thought I had one locked down at Jarvis in Lufkin which was a very good dealer experience but, they sold the loader off of it, and in the meantime, the price became a bit too high.

I'm dropping off the cashier's check with Cunningham in Paris, Texas today if all goes as expected. Smaller dealership overall but, I think I will have a good ownership experience there with very personalized service (no big company commercial infrastructure because I dealt directly with the owner and had simple straightforward conversations without the MBA business school banter and drivel).

 

[Sid Post]

To the OP, look at dual wheels. The difference in stability is amazing compared to single rear wheels. Also use a quick release style of dual wheel attatchment(don't fill with ballast either).
Always keep the loader DOWN LOW when travelling. It is amazing how many people travel with the loader up high where it can destabalise the tractor and cause a roll - over.
Good luck in your hunt.

In Junior and High School, I spent my time mainly on a John Deere 4630 with dual 20.8x38's so, I totally get that option.

Yea, a lot of people are ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS about using a loader safely. I don't walk under it either when loaded or with something suspended from it either! My buddy gets a little irked that I take the time to WALK AROUND THE TRACTOR instead of going under the loader.

 

[rScotty]

I know the problem, and have a solution that worked for me....probably not a universal fix, though. But I have an old Ag tractor that has wheels on both ends that can be spread out until the tractor has approximently the same look and stability as a horned frog.

It's old two cylinder JD530 series Ag tractor - originally for 20 to 40 acre corn and vegetables - with adjustable front and rear wheels. Rears are power adjustable for width but fronts you have to wrestle out.

The front and rear can be made to be ridiculously wide. The tractor only has 32 hp, but they made larger ones. I doubt this is special to JD. Chances are a lot of older Ag tractors in the utility 30 to 60 hp size were used for truck and crops were available with wide adjustable width.

This JD530 one weights right at 7500 lbs. 4 speed, manual shift, factory power steering. The loader easily handles a ton or more. The 3pt is cat II with draft and has hand cranks for adjustment, the PTO is independent and clutched, and the hydraulics are high flow. Seat is sprung and damped.
h
Nice old tractor, and you simply can't tip it over. Maybe there is something similar in your neck of the woods.
rScotty

Just thought I'd mention I looked up the width adjustment on our old JD above.
Tread width can be set from 59" to 104" on the rear, and 59 to 88" on the front axle.

With a 92" wheel base front to rear, that means the wheel base can be adjusted to make it wider than it is long.... Probably lots of Ag tractors have similar adjustability.
Maybe compact tractors like the L4600 could use wheel extenders or duals.

 

[Torvy]

Thought I had one locked down at Jarvis in Lufkin which was a very good dealer experience but, they sold the loader off of it, and in the meantime, the price became a bit too high.

I'm dropping off the cashier's check with Cunningham in Paris, Texas today if all goes as expected. Smaller dealership overall but, I think I will have a good ownership experience there with very personalized service (no big company commercial infrastructure because I dealt directly with the owner and had simple straightforward conversations without the MBA business school banter and drivel).

That tractor is double the size of what you started this thread with. I couldn't use anything that big. I look forward to seeing pics of it in action!

We are getting our UTV in Paris. Just found out my T574 is ready. Now I have to get it out there.

 

[5030]

Least he's buying a tractor unlike the Cahaba Valley Farm guy who just procrastinates...lol

 

[woolyAcres]

@Sid Post have you considered the Kioti RX6620? I believe it comes as a cabbed model, has adjustable wheel spacing options, has a loader lift capacity over 3300lbs to full height, bare tractor weighs nearly 6000lbs; with loaded rears and loader probably weights nearly 9000. Not sure if Kioti is well represented in your area but might be worth a look. Not to mention it's probably less expensive than many other options.

 

[MTGreen]

Congrats on your purchase! Hope it serves you well!

Specifically, the 2850M I looked at had 3-pt ends/swivels that spun 90 degrees to go from Cat 1 to Cat 2! Genius!

Deere had this feature available at least as early as 2002 on my 5220 -may be on other makes as well

 

[tradosaurus]

I own a Kubota L-4600 today. In relatively flat Oklahoma where I grew up, it was a great tractor for chores but, where I am at in Texas is sloped with feral hog wallows hidden in the pasture grass and similar obstacles that are hard to see from the seat.

I need something that is stable using a loader out in my pasture which my L-4600 is not. For those that will ask, yes my tires are loaded with "beet juice / rim guard" with wheel weights and normally a heavy 6' tiller for ballast and it is still too light in the rear. It also has a high center of gravity with a narrow "footprint" for loader work.

I need a tractor heavy enough for normal farm chores for me including but, not limited to using:

• post hole digger
• bush hog (AKA rotary cutter) so at least 35Hp PTO as a hard minimum
• heavy loader work
  • big round bale movements (not stacking)
  • buckets of wet soil
  • Skid Steer pallet forks with moderately heavy loads like pallets of range cubes or half pallets of concrete

I am looking for something with a good cab which will serve me well as I get older than I am today. To me, this means easy entry and exit, air conditioning that works well in Texas heat and humidity, and ergonomic controls that won't fatigue me with age or extended use like mowing around trees and other obstacles.

My initial search has me looking at the TYM T574 and Massey 2850M/2860M since they have relatively good dealer support around me. Yanmar is of interest but, that dealer is ~200 miles away! The Massey options are in the $45K range new and the TYM is in the $38K range so, while $7K is a lot of money, not enough to encourage me to buy the wrong tractor due to cost.

John Deere and Kubota generally dominate this market space but, Kubota is not of interest right now because their tractors are too light for their loaders and are generally undersized in the class IMHO. John Deere's business model has this diehard legacy John Deere owner looking somewhere else these days. "Right to repair" may get around their proprietary software issues for fixing a broken tractor but, that was a real turn-off for me. United Ag and Turf, the local John Deere dealer, has not been a good experience generally so far when I went there for implements and similar stuff.

What are people's experiences with Mahindra and LS tractors in this class? LS dealer support is weak but, Mahindra seems to be really making an impact on the Lowes and Home Depot garden tractor shopping crowd that just bought a small acreage. I am open to other brands that have reasonable support and a track record of being good for the owners and long-term dealers.

TIA,
Sid

Where did you get that information? What is meant by "tractors are too light for their loaders"?

I have a MX5400 which is close in hp to the TYM T574.

TYM T574 (55 hp)= 3887 lb (weight with ROPS)
MX5400 (54 hp) = 3734 lb (weight with ROPS)

The Massey 2850M seems to be 300 lbs heavier than the MX5400 but my rear filled tires easily surpass that amount and wheel weights can also be added.
Massey 2850M (48 hp) = 4035 lb (weight with ROPS)

I would suggest getting seat time in all the equivalent tractor sizes where you can get dealer support before making your decision. Don't go on misinformation.

 

[LD1]

So I am confused? Are you still shopping for a smaller tractor?

You have a bit of contradictory info in your first post.....

You say:

Kubota is not of interest right now because their tractors are too light for their loaders and are generally undersized in the class IMHO

Then you say

My initial search has me looking at the TYM T574 or massey 2850

..................................Kubota MX5400.............TYM574...............Massey 285
Weight w/cab......................4251......................4233...................4420
Front tires.........................9.5x16.....................9.5x16.................9.5-16
Rear..................................14.9x26...................14.9x26................13.6-28
3PH lift..............................2310...........................3057...................3086
Wheelbase..........................74.6............................76.2
Loader lift height.................111.2..........................110.2..................111
Loader lift capacity...............2275...........................2790...................2570

The bare tractor TYM574 is about a dead ringer for a kubota MX5400. Yet has a ~500# stronger loader and you are worried the kubota loader is too powerful for the machine???? The massey is not much bigger. Just a few hundred pounds more but physically about the same size.

I have an older version....MX5100. I have 600# wheel weights, 700# tire ballast....and I can still tell you that unless you hang 1000lbs off the back you cannot use the loader to its fullest extent.

But I can tell you that either of these tractors.....or any tractor still wearing 16" front rubber (4wd models) is probably too small for 2000# pallets or large round bale moving.

What transmission are you looking at? IF you are wanting a HST trans......you are already looking at about the largest you can get with a HST.

But if you are looking at a gear tractor.....and wanting to lift 2000# pallets and move the LARGE round bales....you need to jump up one frame size. The deere 5045-5075 series. Which are all the same basic tractor with different optional HP ratings. OR the M4 kubota line

You need to get up around a 5000-6000 bare tractor weight to move round bales. Unless your plan is to move them off the 3PH

 

[Sid Post]

That tractor is double the size of what you started this thread with. I couldn't use anything that big. I look forward to seeing pics of it in action!

We are getting our UTV in Paris. Just found out my T574 is ready. Now I have to get it out there.

Actually, I have 3 work tractors. A Kubota B2601, currently a Kubota L-4600 that needs to move on, and my yet to be delivered Massey 5711D.

The big Massey is going to be most useful for the loader capacity with downed trees where I live and similar hard lifts around fence lines with downed trees letting cattle out. It will also run my rotary cutter (bush hog) better and the weight of my 3-pt sprayer won't be so risky when I'm down to 100 gallons and it is sloshing from side to side.

The mid-size tractor will be more nimble and compact for things like the posthole digger and working "in the trees" to pull out smaller stuff.

Then there are the simple joys of using a tractor like some people who own a Corvette for an occasional weekend drive. Some people have really expensive stereo systems but, for me, the sound of a hit-n-miss engine or a 2-cylinder John Deere is what I really enjoy for a special experience as opposed to Spotify on my cellphone which is more of an everyday sort of background noise most of the time. My new tractor won't make sense to many people but, I also don't understand the money spent on boats by my sister and similar people whether for water skiing or fishing.

 

[Sid Post]

We are getting our UTV in Paris. Just found out my T574 is ready. Now I have to get it out there.

Which UTV and dealer? Looked a bit at the Suzuki and Kawasaki dealer myself but, left with mixed feelings.

Is your TYM dealer around Paris as well?

 

[Sid Post]

@Sid Post have you considered the Kioti RX6620? I believe it comes as a cabbed model, has adjustable wheel spacing options, has a loader lift capacity over 3300lbs to full height, bare tractor weighs nearly 6000lbs; with loaded rears and loader probably weights nearly 9000. Not sure if Kioti is well represented in your area but might be worth a look. Not to mention it's probably less expensive than many other options.

Kioti might be a good option for some but, there isn't a dealer within ~150 miles, at least one I'm aware of that doesn't compete with Lowes and Home Depot!

 

[Sid Post]

Where did you get that information? What is meant by "tractors are too light for their loaders"?

I have a MX5400 which is close in hp to the TYM T574.

TYM T574 (55 hp)= 3887 lb (weight with ROPS)
MX5400 (54 hp) = 3734 lb (weight with ROPS)

The Massey 2850M seems to be 300 lbs heavier than the MX5400 but my rear filled tires easily surpass that amount and wheel weights can also be added.
Massey 2850M (48 hp) = 4035 lb (weight with ROPS)

I would suggest getting seat time in all the equivalent tractor sizes where you can get dealer support before making your decision. Don't go on misinformation.

From personal experience, the rear end lifts off the ground way too much. I have also come close to rolling it twice.

Sheer weight is part of the equation but, doesn't account for poor design choices. My L-4600 is taller than the lower horsepower twins but, isn't enough wider to keep the Cg as low as on those tractors. Then there is the skinny rear end which, while serviceable, is IMHO simply too light.

Even if the tractors are the same weight, if Cg is too far forward with excessive weight up front, tractor stability is at best compromised. Also, 4WD tractors tend to mask this since they "pull" when the rears don't really engage the ground very well.

 

[Sid Post]

So I am confused? Are you still shopping for a smaller tractor?

You have a bit of contradictory info in your first post.....

You say:



Then you say



..................................Kubota MX5400.............TYM574...............Massey 285
Weight w/cab......................4251......................4233...................4420
Front tires.........................9.5x16.....................9.5x16.................9.5-16
Rear..................................14.9x26...................14.9x26................13.6-28
3PH lift..............................2310...........................3057...................3086
Wheelbase..........................74.6............................76.2
Loader lift height.................111.2..........................110.2..................111
Loader lift capacity...............2275...........................2790...................2570

The bare tractor TYM574 is about a dead ringer for a kubota MX5400. Yet has a ~500# stronger loader and you are worried the kubota loader is too powerful for the machine???? The massey is not much bigger. Just a few hundred pounds more but physically about the same size.

I have an older version....MX5100. I have 600# wheel weights, 700# tire ballast....and I can still tell you that unless you hang 1000lbs off the back you cannot use the loader to its fullest extent.

But I can tell you that either of these tractors.....or any tractor still wearing 16" front rubber (4wd models) is probably too small for 2000# pallets or large round bale moving.

What transmission are you looking at? IF you are wanting a HST trans......you are already looking at about the largest you can get with a HST.

But if you are looking at a gear tractor.....and wanting to lift 2000# pallets and move the LARGE round bales....you need to jump up one frame size. The deere 5045-5075 series. Which are all the same basic tractor with different optional HP ratings. OR the M4 kubota line

You need to get up around a 5000-6000 bare tractor weight to move round bales. Unless your plan is to move them off the 3PH

Tractor stability is the issue. I think a 4,000lb to 5,000lb tractor that is properly balanced is what I really need for lighter-duty chores when a 10,000lb cabbed tractor is simply too big and cumbersome.

A real usable loader capacity of ~2,000lbs should lift a round bale for general movement with most hay bales and the 3-pt will easily handle another.

And yes, I am mainly looking for a geared tractor. An HST in a hay field or with a rotary cutter is not something I enjoy using. Been there and done that in the past with a friend's Kioti.

 

[tradosaurus]

How about a skid steer? No worries then about lifting.

 

[tradosaurus]

From personal experience, the rear end lifts off the ground way too much. I have also come close to rolling it twice.

Sheer weight is part of the equation but, doesn't account for poor design choices. My L-4600 is taller than the lower horsepower twins but, isn't enough wider to keep the Cg as low as on those tractors. Then there is the skinny rear end which, while serviceable, is IMHO simply too light.

Even if the tractors are the same weight, if Cg is too far forward with excessive weight up front, tractor stability is at best compromised. Also, 4WD tractors tend to mask this since they "pull" when the rears don't really engage the ground very well.

You made the claim of Kubota's being to light for their loaders.

My personal experience is with the proper ballast and not exceeding the FEL limits the Kubota is just as robust as any other tractor.

The Cg too far forward would be true for any tractor. I can't say if the Cg of the Kubota is farther forward than any other tractor but I would find it hard to believe that Kubota would design a tractor where the Cg would make it inherently dangerous.