Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[MossRoad]

Exactly.
Like who plants corn, soybeans or hay right up to the 18.3’ concrete circle? Then the power company sends trucks out to the towers and runs over everything, leaves ruts, etc.
I know I waste a LOT of time trying to fertilize, seed, rake, ted or bale around concrete electrical towers versus mostly straight lines.

You're mixing a currently active wind turbine with a retired wind turbine base that we were discussing. There's usually a gravel or limestone parking area or driveway around the base, and a driveway leading up to it. No running over anything, or leaving ruts anywhere.

Once it's retired and removed, all that goes away. And as we've found today, there are contracts to remove the base to below grade, so it'll be like it's never there.

Call them up on Google Earth and look at their footprints.

 

[Hay Dude]

If you'd read what I've written over the years, let alone today, you'd know I'm not a fan of wind farms and that I, like you, would rather see a push towards nuclear power.

That I dislike wind power doesn't change the physical facts that the base is about 20' in diameter, and I've posted aerial shots as corroboration to that statement, with measurements. And others have mentioned about the removal of the concrete down to a farmable depth. No, it's not magic, but it happens pretty fast.

There are no ranch herds on wind farms in Indiana. Probably weren't before then either. It's corn. Corn. CORN. Maybe some beans and winter wheat.

I posted a study by university of Wisconsin that found wind farms are beneficial to crops. Wisconsin! You don't get more farmy than Wisconsin. And Wisconsin is, last I checked, 3rd in wind farms in the country.

As far as one getting within 1000' of my house.... I live next to an airport and two rail lines. I sincerely doubt I'd even notice them, or see them through the trees. I'm more concerned about Doctors in Bonanzas.

Geeze, guy. I mean, please try comprehending what I am actually having to deal with. You don’t. I do. So let’s get that straight.

Again, I am not overly concerned about farming over them when they are gone. Who really gives a flip about that?

I’m talking about farming around them when they are there.

 

[MossRoad]

Geeze, guy. I mean, please try comprehending what I am actually having to deal with. You don’t. I do. So let’s get that straight.

Again, I am not overly concerned about farming over them when they are gone. Who really gives a flip about that?

I’m talking about farming around them when they are there.

Look at the photos I posted in posts 565 and 566. The farmer has planted right up to the driveways up to and around the turbine bases.

Once the bases are gone, they'll farm right over them.

So what's the argument you're trying to make?

Unless you lease land from a farmer that has also leased it out to wind production, it'll never affect you. And if by chance you do lease land from a farmer that has also leased it out to wind production, you wouldn't include non-usable land in your lease agreement anyway. It's a non-issue for you or anyone that leases land.

The owner of the land gets to decide how best to use it. Unless you want to tie the hands of farmers and prevent them from leasing land for wind production?

If you're talking about it being a pain to farm around electrical transmission towers/poles, how do you suggest they get nuclear power to the masses?

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I just got another load of horse hay from a farmer I've known many years. If I repeated what he says about the infrastructure, windmills, electric cars/trucks/tractors, solar panels, etc. on this forum I'd be banned for life. His 100s of acre pastures would be ruined even with a few windmills. We're not talking about a subdivision life mowing around a bird bath. He doesn't get his information via the internet but real world experience.

 

[bnold]

What an ugly rape of the land. Talk about destroying ecosystems. That foundation probably took out 5+ acres. Each site is a small “strip mine” adding up to millions of acres filled with concrete.

This “environmentalist” approach to energy transformation has some lies and deceit.

0.1 acre for the concrete.
Seems like they out the ecosystem back around it.

 

[MossRoad]

0.1 acre for the concrete.
Seems like they out the ecosystem back around it.

It's not even 0.1 acre for concrete. It's 1/145 of an acre above ground.

 

[bnold]

It's not even 0.1 acre for concrete. It's 1/145 of an acre above ground.

I meant below, but you are correct for above.


All this complaining about farmers and ranchers leasing and making money on their property off evil energy companies. Poor farmers and all that extra money in their pocket. Real shame.

 

[MossRoad]

From what I've been reading, smaller turbine lease will bring in about $8K per year. Larger turbine could bring in well north of $50K per year.

I've read stories a few years ago about farmers leasing their land to wind farms, retiring, and leasing the farmable land to kids that think they want to be farmers.

Think about busting your hump on several hundred acres to clear this:

Median total household income among all farm households $92,239.

That includes off the farm employment. Now lease out some wind farm space. No work for similar income. And, you can keep farming if you choose. Or lease the land to someone else to farm it.

Some interesting farm statistics:

Ag and Food Statistics: Charting the Essentials - Farming and Farm Income | Economic Research Service

U.S. agriculture and rural life underwent a tremendous transformation in the 20th century. Early 20th century agriculture was labor intensive, and it took place on many small, diversified farms in rural areas where more than half the U.S. population lived. Agricultural production in the 21st...

www.ers.usda.gov

 

[two_bit_score]

What an ugly rape of the land. Talk about destroying ecosystems. That foundation probably took out 5+ acres. Each site is a small “strip mine” adding up to millions of acres filled with concrete.

This “environmentalist” approach to energy transformation has some lies and deceit.

Right. Something like that you CANNOT easily get rid of. People who think otherwise don’t know what they are talking about. Here are some o the things that need to be done to reclaim and remediate a wind farm:
Someone would have to safely clear, clean, and remove:
 each wind turbine generator, each substation, all liquids contained in a generator or substation, and each installed overhead power or communications line;
 each tower and pad-mount transformer foundation from the ground at least three feet from the grade of the affected land; and
 each buried cable installed in the ground at least three feet below the grade of the affected land.
The agreement would have to provide that, at the request of the landowner, the grantee would clear, clean, and remove each road constructed on the property. If reasonable, the agreement also would have to provide that the grantee, at the request of the landowner, would remove all rocks over 12 inches in diameter excavated during the decommissioning process, return the property to a tillable state using certain methods, and return the surface as near as possible to the same condition as before the grantee dug holes.
For the removal of towers, pad-mount transformers, buried cables, roads, and excavated rocks, the grantee would have to ensure that holes created by the removal were filled with topsoil.

Expensive is not enough of a word for it.

 

[jyoutz]

Right. Something like that you CANNOT easily get rid of. People who think otherwise don’t know what they are talking about. Here are some o the things that need to be done to reclaim and remediate a wind farm:
Someone would have to safely clear, clean, and remove:
 each wind turbine generator, each substation, all liquids contained in a generator or substation, and each installed overhead power or communications line;
 each tower and pad-mount transformer foundation from the ground at least three feet from the grade of the affected land; and
 each buried cable installed in the ground at least three feet below the grade of the affected land.
The agreement would have to provide that, at the request of the landowner, the grantee would clear, clean, and remove each road constructed on the property. If reasonable, the agreement also would have to provide that the grantee, at the request of the landowner, would remove all rocks over 12 inches in diameter excavated during the decommissioning process, return the property to a tillable state using certain methods, and return the surface as near as possible to the same condition as before the grantee dug holes.
For the removal of towers, pad-mount transformers, buried cables, roads, and excavated rocks, the grantee would have to ensure that holes created by the removal were filled with topsoil.

Expensive is not enough of a word for it.

Research decommissioning and removal of a coal plant. Astronomical costs. Many become federal superfund sites because the operators file bankruptcy to avoid site clean up.

 

[two_bit_score]

0.1 acre for the concrete.
Seems like they out the ecosystem back around it.

No. Proper remediation requires removal.

 

[jyoutz]

Geeze, guy. I mean, please try comprehending what I am actually having to deal with. You don’t. I do. So let’s get that straight.

Again, I am not overly concerned about farming over them when they are gone. Who really gives a flip about that?

I’m talking about farming around them when they are there.

Go to west Texas. There are tens of thousands of acres of farmland (wheat, cotton, corn, milo, sunflowers, hay) that have windmill installations throughout. This goes for a couple hundred miles from Amarillo to Lubbock and to the east as well. Farmers seem to have this figured out.

 

[two_bit_score]

Go to west Texas. There are tens of thousands of acres of farmland (wheat, cotton, corn, milo, sunflowers, hay) that have windmill installations throughout. This goes for a couple hundred miles from Amarillo to Lubbock and to the east as well. Farmers seem to have this figured out.

West Texas farmers have a lot of experience farming around the “stumps” in the form of injection wells, well head, well pads, pump jacks, ”christmas trees”, tank batteries, Irrigation pivots, Etc, etc.

That doesn’t totally negate the tangible and intangible costs of doing so.

 

[jyoutz]

West Texas farmers have a lot of experience farming around the “stumps” in the form of injection wells, well head, well pads, pump jacks, ”christmas trees”, tank batteries, Irrigation pivots, Etc, etc.

That doesn’t totally negate the tangible and intangible costs of doing so.

True, but those “stumps” including windmills also provide substantial income to the farmers.

 

[Hay Dude]

Go to west Texas. There are tens of thousands of acres of farmland (wheat, cotton, corn, milo, sunflowers, hay) that have windmill installations throughout. This goes for a couple hundred miles from Amarillo to Lubbock and to the east as well. Farmers seem to have this figured out.

I was just there. They have figured it out.
It doesn’t mean it works everywhere.
And it still doesn’t mean there isn’t crop loss or time/money spent having to deal with them.

 

[Hay Dude]

Research decommissioning and removal of a coal plant. Astronomical costs. Many become federal superfund sites because the operators file bankruptcy to avoid site clean up.

Maybe, maybe not. Most are being converted to NG which makes a great deal of sense considering we have so much of it compared to windmills and solar panels which require land acquisition, new infrastructure and a lot of foreign built parts. Then it doesn’t work if it’s dark (solar) or if there’s no wind (windmills).

 

[LouNY]

Research decommissioning and removal of a coal plant. Astronomical costs. Many become federal superfund sites because the operators file bankruptcy to avoid site clean up.

And guess whats going to happen with all these wind and solar companies. If you can even keep track of who has what lease. One of the smaller ones here has changed ownership names 3 times in as many years.

 

[turbo36]

I just got another load of horse hay from a farmer I've known many years. If I repeated what he says about the infrastructure, windmills, electric cars/trucks/tractors, solar panels, etc. on this forum I'd be banned for life. His 100s of acre pastures would be ruined even with a few windmills. We're not talking about a subdivision life mowing around a bird bath. He doesn't get his information via the internet but real world experience.

Yeah, but he doesn’t have to mow around windmills If he doesn’t lease out his land. It’s his choice, so what is he complaining about?

 

[bnold]

No. Proper remediation requires removal.

Then negotiate that in the lease or bond. Or choose to not lease. Land owner’s choice.

 

[bnold]

And guess whats going to happen with all these wind and solar companies. If you can even keep track of who has what lease. One of the smaller ones here has changed ownership names 3 times in as many years.

Same story for oil and gas.
Ever been to Louisiana inter-coastal?

Thousands of abandoned wells and thousands of miles pipe laying on the bottom. Laws allow for the property to be transferred to new companies and reset the clock to removal. Others just go ‘bankrupt’ opening under a new name the next day. A real shame what oil and gas companies are allowed to get away with.

Don’t worry, your tax dollars are starting to plug them. (A tiny fraction)

New federal funding aims to plug hundreds of orphan oil wells across the state

After decades of exploration – and exploitation — Louisiana is covered with thousands of orphaned well sites that cause a plethora of problems for the environment and communities that live with them.

www.wwno.org

Only coal plant I’ve personally followed that was decommissioned and destroyed along with adjacent strip mine has been a long, reclamation process, but is ongoing and backed by a substantial required bond. The work will either get finished by luminat or the bond will be called and that money will finish the reclaim. Ranch land for the most part on the reclaim. Old plant and lake is going to become a high end golf course, resort, neighborhood, private lake.