Dealers Not Accepting Some Brands on Trade

[troverman]

Interesting. As the owner of an '08 F-450 with a 6.4 in it, this is good to know.

Every time I mention this truck to a mechanic they say, "Sell it!", but not to them.

Yes, I know the engine is as fragile as glass and it goes through oil changes twice as often as it should due to "making oil".

I had thought about trading it in only because it's an XL and lacks a lot of creature comforts. I even had to add cruise control to it. But it has only 90K miles and its only used as a tow vehicle for our 5th wheel. If I get 200K out of it I'll be happy. It looks and runs good, but has been hobbled by its emission controls.

The 6.4L Powerstroke (also made by International) has one very good thing about it - the high pressure Siemens K16 fuel pump. The current Ford 6.7L has used the Bosch CP4.2 high pressure fuel pump since it came out in 2011, and that pump has a poor reputation for reliability. The older 6.0L didn't use a high pressure fuel pump. The Siemens pump can push a lot of fuel, and holds up seemingly well. Otherwise, the 6.4L engine is not actually as robust as the earlier 6.0L in terms of internals, and the emissions system is a disaster (not one, but 2 EGR coolers, one hard to get to), the DPF system that can shoot fire out the tailpipe, etc. When these engines are running good, they are nice to drive. They make plenty of power and sound good.

We rent out part of the shop to a paving company, and they had a 2009 F-350 6.4L truck used for towing. They got 300k out of it and traded it, still running fine, with few problems...but they deleted the DPF and EGR system early in the truck's life. Of course now with the EPA cracking down on everyone for everything now, delete kits are hard to find and there are hefty fines if you are caught with one on your truck.

 

[Grumpycat]

Smaller dealers are more hesitant to to accept trades in general because they have to pay that value out of their own pocket.

Ditto. New tractors on the lot are financed. Financing usually subsidized by the manufacturer. Meet sales goals and get discounts and extended flooring terms.

But a trade-in has to be paid in full unless a 3rd party flooring/finance company is involved. The problem with this is the flooring company will grossly lowball your trade. They are buying sight unseen based only in what the dealer tells them about condition.

 

[jiggseob]

Because they can... dealers do business in a manner that is profitable for them and not so for their customers because they can.

Yes, it may seem that owners of the brands being treated "unfairly" should be afforded some protection from the "big evil" established brands.

"The gummit" regulating activities of business as to how they conduct transactions is a deep deep deep rabbit-hole down which no one wants to go.

There was a time that Kubota was a grey-market off-brand, competing in the arena of Ford 8N-9N, Allis Chalmers WD, Massey Harris 22/Pony, John Deere MT, and Farmall Cub, among others. We all can see how that competition went, but those early years of Kubota in north america were not easy ones for Kubota owners.

I grew up with those long established domestic brands of small utility tractors, and my current mid-80s Kubota B6200HST has served me very well since 1990, working reliably and capably in a manner that those aforementioned "domestics" could only dream of.

Those big "domestics" have all now "partnered" with grey-market off brand Asian manufacturers to bring "Kubota like" product into their lines. Go figger...

 

[BadgerCheese]

My LS has 900+ hours, runs great and does everything I ask of it. I'm not interested in selling it................but if I did...............I would not be going to a dealer to get bottom dollar for my unit and pay top dollar for new equipment. I have a feeling that steel is going to get progressively more difficult to move as we get into 2024. Money costs something again.

Take good care of what you have!

 

[2manyrocks]

The easy excuse is that they don't know how or cannot service these brands, reliably get parts, etc. There may be some truth to that. A lot of the Asian tractors (excluding Kubota) have factory-sold implements like a front-end loader or rotary cutter, etc...that are made by who knows who, and parts can be very hard to source. On a JD or Kubota, those parts are easy to source, plenty of service info, etc. Beyond that, there might be an intentional strategy of trying to lower value, or at least perceived value, of the 'value' brands by not taking trades. In fairness, the Korean and Indian brands do not hold their value as well and do not have as good a support system. They might be just fine for many users of course.

My personal experience this year is my Mahindra 3525 brakes started acting up. Took them apart. Looked glazed and it looks like it may need the seals replaced on the bull pinion gears which are internal to the transmission. The seals are shown as not available on the Mahindra parts website. Called the dealer that sold it to me. Neither the parts guy or service guy have been available to take my call and don't return calls. Spoke to the owner. Still haven't gotten a call. Called another dealer and their parts guy gave me the wrong seal numbers. Called another dealer pretty far away and their parts guy immediately identified the substitute seal numbers, but they are so far away that it would be an undertaking to take my tractor to them for repair.

I asked the service manager at one of the local Kubota dealers if he'd work on it. Got an immediate "no, getting parts is a nightmare."

I don't think there's an intentional strategy as much as practical experience is the lack of support makes it a hassle to repair these tractors to the point that people don't want the hassle and that kills the trade in value.

 

[troverman]

I don't think there's an intentional strategy as much as practical experience is the lack of support makes it a hassle to repair these tractors to the point that people don't want the hassle and that kills the trade in value.

Interesting. In my opinion - and its just my opinion - Mahindra is the worst. Its a huge company and half their models are made by someone else anyway - but everything is so hodgepodge it doesn't surprise me parts are hard to come by. If I was forced to not buy a JD, Kubota, NH, or Yanmar - I'd pick a Kioti from the value brands.

 

[charlessenf]

"... why do tractor dealers do it?"

You would need to see the arrangements the dealer has with the brand(s) on his lot. I could well be that he has a deal with the lines he offers based upon his advertising such declarations as caused you to copy it and start a conversation here.

Branding is generally 'the cow's spouse's defecation" especially with the advent of the leveraged buyouts that buy the name and squeeze the organization so as to maximize investor ROI at the expense of quality and labor.

When you buy a can of sweet peas from IGA or Walmart, you don't assume that there is an IGA Pea Farm and and IGA Cannery out there somewhere do you?

Who owns Dewalt and Black and Decker, for instance. Trump Tower wasn't built by Donald Trump, but by the same guys that build the generic office buildings down the street (and got paid for their work

Walmart and Amazon are simply Ali-Baba Outlets with a commanding share of the US Consumer Market.

So, my guess is that it is a marketing ploy underwritten by the Mgf through some sort of dealer incentive/kickback.

Every 'shocked' and 'surprised' customer that responds as you have is a win for the motive behind the advertising - there is no Free Lunch and it is as unlikely that dealers and manufacturers place such ads accidently.

 

[charlessenf]

"When government runs off all the cows and cattle"

Wow, when'd 'they' do that? Did they use the Space Lasers?

I thought they were all about abortion, stacking the courts with religious zealots, and blaming everything on immigrants (which, given the history of America, might make sense since almost 99 percent of us are NOT native to this land.

 

[case580ck]

"When government runs off all the cows and cattle"

Wow, when'd 'they' do that? Did they use the Space Lasers?

I thought they were all about abortion, stacking the courts with religious zealots, and blaming everything on immigrants (which, given the history of America, might make sense since almost 99 percent of us are NOT native to this land.

go back to motherjones. you have nothing to offer anyone.

 

[Thereisagod]

Speaking as a Suzuki owner, Suzuki actually made some pretty decent small cars from a mechanical reliability viewpoint, but then pulled out of the US car market (2012?) such that obtaining parts isn't so easy.

Totally agree with you. Suzuki make (made?) some of the most reliable cars on the road and they have a solid, almost cult-like following. Sure, they're cheap and simple, but they're well engineered to last. My oldest daughter bought an SX4 Crossover in 2010 that she put over 250,000 trouble free miles on. She drove that little car all over the US and it never once let her down. She replaced it with a Honda CRV and two years later she still misses her little SX4. I myself purchased a leftover 2011 SX4 in 2012 (a simpler, less appointed version of my daughter's) and loved it, too. Great in snow, AWD and light with at least 6" ground clearance. Problems in snow only when 8" or deeper. I moved another of my daughters from Long Island, NY to her new home in Huntsville, AL. We had the car loaded to the gills with her "stuff'' and you would think there was nothing in it when viewed from behind - no squat, no wheels splayed out like with most other cars when fully loaded. I eventually donated it to my other daughter (yes, I have lots of them) with nearly 50,000 trouble free miles. Not one thing had gone wrong or had to be replaced other than oil, filters, plugs. Even the exhaust & tires were still good. It now has nearly 100,000 trouble free miles and still going strong. The only complaint I would level is I loathe CV trannies and gas mileage for a small vehicle could be a lot better. It turns out, though, that Suzuki make absolute gems - if solid reliability is high on your list. My daughter has discovered that mechanics also like Suzukis and have made her offers (that so far she's refused.) That should tell you a lot.

 

[Thereisagod]

I never, ever trade in. I always sell it myself and then deal on the replacement. Years ago I was dealing on a car and when I mentioned maybe a trade in, the price went up. Learned my lesson. I don't mind them making money, just don't take ALL of mine!

Today it's "don't let them know you're paying cash." Usu the first question they ask is, ''will you be paying cash or financing?" As soon as you say "cash" miraculous extea costs appear on the invoice.

 

[Bill the Elder]

Told my sweetheart I was thinking about buying a Bad Girl, didn't go over well.

 

[2manyrocks]

Only available to rent

 

[Bob in RVA]

I remember when Minneapolis-Moline and Case were the most popular tractors in the thumb of Michigan,

 

[BLue backhoe]

When you want to sell orange and you put something else on your lot that is quality for a better price. It doesn’t look good on your business..

My local new Holland dealer wasn’t very happy that I was able to buy the exact same thing as his boomer series for cheaper money when I bought my LS. At the time. LS was making all the boomers. It was exact same tractor with a different logo.

I think the slowing down economy, and trying to protect their brand, are the motivating factors.

 

[arrow]

Tractor data says the Mahindra 2538 is built by TYM.

Another issue that seems to be going on is finding tractor mechanics to keep tractors running. I have a suspicion that one of the reasons for not wanting trade ins is the dealerships don't have the mechanics to figure out what is wrong and to make repairs on a cost effective basis on other brands. So they just don't want other brands that their mechanics aren't familiar with.

That's part of it and a rather large part.
Another large aspect however is if the trade needs parts.
It is the predominant reason and has little to do with "what brand sells".
The dealer has to back up what he sells unless there is a "sold as is " clause.
I once had a John Deere to trade (JD 750 in literal show room condition and 1600 hrs )and went to a John Deere dealer.
He showed me $1500 and said, "parts are getting tough for these so I can't offer you more".

 

[NoTrespassing]

The mark up margins of yesteryear no longer exist today with autos, tractors or refrigerators. They have been reduced because of increases in costs for manufacturers. I mean the Burger King kid is now making $17 an hr. Margins are getting tighter and tighter.
The manufacturers say to the dealers: "if you want more money, you're gonna have to sell more stuff". Add to that what's happened to borrowing rates, insurance increases, wage increases, the lack of workers and the general malaise and distrust our entire culture seems to be living with these days, makes for one big, lousy soup.

It has become vicious out there with the dealerships on the low end of the totem pole and the sales people lower than a rattle snake's belly in a wagon wheel rut.

I was discussing margins for car dealerships with a person the other day. My opinion was that dealerships are making more servicing the cars they sell than they are making on the sale itself. Is this true?

 

[BigBlue1]

If I was looking at doing business with a dealer and saw them post an ad like the original post making a sarcastic/snide name change like 'Bad Girl' they could f right off. Having an attitude like that in common business dealing shows me I'd want nothing to do with them. Lack of professionalism.

 

[arrow]

I was discussing margins for car dealerships with a person the other day. My opinion was that dealerships are making more servicing the cars they sell than they are making on the sale itself. Is this true?

Depends.
New cars that used to have a 3-4K margin, now have about a $1300 one showing on the invoice..and this for a 34K auto.
Most sales people get around a hundred bucks per car they sell now where they used to get 15-20% above invoice profit. There was room then to do that. Not anymore.
The owner of the dealership gets more with the unspoken and sacrosanct money going directly in his pocket from the manufacturer.
I used to know what that was but I do not anymore in todays world.
So, if that new car now has 35,000 miles on it and needs brakes, that could very well be $650 per axle.
The dealer pays insurances, salaries, benefits, along with utilities, taxes and the nut on his floor plan and or building.
It is why we now pay $140-$180 per hr in labor costs.
It has gotten so that if as a dealership owner, and you have only the one brand or dealership, you are most likely losing money.
It has now become critical that a dealership becomes a consortium owning 10 to 20 properties and brands to cover the market gamut of choices.
It's like betting on every horse in a race to cover the customer spread of choice..

 

[arrow]

If I was looking at doing business with a dealer and saw them post an ad like the original post making a sarcastic/snide name change like 'Bad Girl' they could f right off. Having an attitude like that in common business dealing shows me I'd want nothing to do with them. Lack of professionalism.

Guaranteed that was from a 25 old something spoiled brat in management who thought that a perfectly alright thing to say because all of his friends are spoiled brats and entitled as well and a phrase like that swims within that group.
I dealt with "wiz kids" like this in my 20 yr car/truck sales experience.
No class at all.
They used to say "sticker is quicker" back then.
Yeah, ok.