Just arrived and hour meter is broken

[paulsharvey]

The dealer would likely return the tractor but I doubt they would pay for freight. At least that’s the solution I would offer if I was the dealer. But my solution really doesn’t matter because I’m not the dealer.

Agreed. I dont think there is intentional fraud. Dealer takes used tractor in trade, washes it, and posts it for sale. They don't typically do anything beyond that. They probably had the original owner sign a paper saying hours where accurate (assuming this wasn't an auction), but a dealer doesn't typically do much beyond wash and post.

For the OP; I would look at filters and see if any have hours marked on them. I agree that $30k is a lot of money to not get what you expected. If the 1500 hrs is accurate, the tires should have pretty moderate but noticeable wear, but this almost entire depends on the surface it was used on. If it came with a manual or anything, the previous owner may have made notes in that. If you can find concrete proof that it has 4k hours, (or anything more than about 500hours more then advertised); I would want to discuss what they are going to do to make you whole (but I don't know whether they have a legal obligation, if they didn't know).

 

[rockinbbar]

This isn't about "Warranty" or "As Is" gentlemen.

It's about buying something that was represented as one thing, and may have obvious issues with the hours represented when sold.

But everyone please continue....

It would be interesting if the OP reports back his talk with the dealer tomorrow.

 

[4570Man]

This isn't about "Warranty" or "As Is" gentlemen.

It's about buying something that was represented as one thing, and may have obvious issues with the hours represented when sold.

But everyone please continue....

It would be interesting if the OP reports back his talk with the dealer tomorrow.

May have is the key word. May have or might doesn’t go anywhere in court. Does anybody have proof that the hour meter didn’t stop working on the transport to the OP? It could in theory be correct besides the 2 hours the op used it.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I think you got lots of good advice. When you said "start talking to the agencies/lawyer in their area." though I wouldn't do that. If you talk to a lawyer you want one in your area, not theirs. I'm betting a lawyer would say proving wrong doing would be basically impossible.
I don't know if yours has an ECU but some I think record hours. Hopefully there's a Kubota dealer in your area that would know.
In fact a Kubota dealer in your area could look it over and should be able to tell approximate hours on it.
If a Kubota dealer believes it's worth money you paid then I'd have them service it and fix tach/hour meter.
Wherever you bought it...do they have a website and reviews you can look up, as well as check BBB site.
If you bought it as-is I'm thinking you don't have recourse. If a dealer checks it out and services it...I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Atypical_decorum]

How does your meter operate?
Is it based on PTO speed? (engine has to run at certain speed to count hours)
Is it based on time when engine is just idling?
from 2004

It's a 2008 M105S. I can see the 1/10 hour number wiggle every few minutes like it's trying to turn, but the gears inside have let go or aren't engaged all the way.

 

[Atypical_decorum]

From what I see they were made 2005 to 2007. For $30,000 I would have wanted to look it over first carefully. Maybe talk with a lawyer if you know one, probably not much you can do at this point.
I saw an ad for a Bobcat skid steer on Craigslist at a good price. Looking at it in person they had used it moving pallets of salt so lots of corrosion and couldn't find service records. Oil was black, dirty filters.
I moved on...
If the Kubota runs well otherwise and hour meter DID work...would you be happy?
There's a "cooling off rule": "As explained by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the federal cooling-off rules gives the consumer three days to cancel certain sales for a full refund."
Only you can decide what's best for you.

Absolutely not. All things mechanical have an expected life span. These tractors and most tractors can get to 10k hours without a major overhaul. This tractor might only have a few thousand hours left instead of 8,500 hours. If it's the former, then the $30k isn't going to go far and I would have bought a different unit. But, I have no way of telling how many hours is has. The dealer was responsible for the content of the ad and the the validity of information exchanged between us as they had the physical item.

 

[Atypical_decorum]

We don’t know if the dealer advertised the tractor had 1500 or what ever hours. The dealer probably said the hour meter on the tractor shows 1500 hours.

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listing/for-sale/226681573

I can't figure out how to check the sold ones from my phone. But you can read for yourself. It's not word trickery as you're saying it might be. The ad stated the tractor had 1555 hours.

 

[4570Man]

Absolutely not. All things mechanical have an expected life span. These tractors and most tractors can get to 10k hours without a major overhaul. This tractor might only have a few thousand hours left instead of 8,500 hours. If it's the former, then the $30k isn't going to go far and I would have bought a different unit. But, I have no way of telling how many hours is has. The dealer was responsible for the content of the ad and the the validity of information exchanged between us as they had the physical item.

That’s not exactly true. The dealer didn’t intentionally lie or mislead you. What are you hoping to come out of the lawsuit? You just said you had no idea of the actual hours. You’re really jumping to the extreme with it might have 8500 hours. No judge is going to award you anything on the bases that it might have 8500 hours. Even if you somehow did prove it has 8500 hours that still doesn’t really equal wrongdoing. The hours could be correct and the meter just recently quit working. I would rate that as a more likely position than 8500 hours. The slipping meter probably wouldn’t hold up for long before the gears wore smooth and it wouldn’t do anything. Have you checked the tractor for any maintenance marks? It’s not uncommon to write hours on filters or under the hood. What does the operator platform and and seat look like?

 

[Atypical_decorum]

So, can he prove the hour meter was was broken upon initial receipt of advertised picture? Not, I don't think so. Can he prove it broke during shipment? No, I don't think so. Where is this "so called" court case all the uproar is about?

So we CAN say the tractor has 1500 hours, but we can't say it is ONLY 1500 hours. It was advertised as a 1500 hour machine, correct? Where is the fraud?

So then the buyer initiates his lawsuit claiming fraudulent BS. If there aren't any cases where the dealer has an established pattern of those activities, dealer can then sue the buyer for many reasons.

This buyer is worried about his little po dunk tractor. Last lawsuit I saw of this nature, in my small 10,000 person town, the countersuit was 8 million, and they won the 8 million. Gave lawyer half and toted four million to the house.

That old boy could end up buying himself a good lesson. Bought lessons are the ones best learned. Sad I have to explain so much. Public education isn't what it used to be.

They'll wipe him out. He'll have to hitch hike his way to Commiefornia because the climate is better for sleeping outdoors.

You sound like a reputable person.... I'd bet a nickle you're a dealer of some sort...maybe used cars.

What you're talking about is a defamation suit. There are clear lines of what makes a defamation suit and what would provide grounds for a counter suit to stand on.

It's a shame you have conflated the two - one being false advertising and two being defamation. However, I glad I had the chance to explain it, so now you know.

Just to follow your "logic" they could have advertised it as a 0 hour tractor too, well, any could advertise any tractor as a 0 hour machine because it once had 0 hours?

And because I like spinning my wheels, when you enter into a sales transaction with a set of facts on each side, those facts need to be correct. The seller was representing the tractor (falsely) and I was the interested party who fulfilled my end of the deal. As the dealer didn't say the the hours were unknown or eluded to possible 15xx hours or more v stating they were 1555 hours, they are to shoulder the responsibility for their error, not the buyer. It's a strange concept that the buyer would both be responsible for the dealers irresponsibility in factually representing the item AND play the role of the buyer whose only job it is to agree to terms/represented information and fund the sale.

Looking forward to your well thought out retort.

 

[Atypical_decorum]

Me...I'd be thinking about what if the dealer calls tomorrow saying the hour meter worked when it left here.
Or what if he says what will it take for you to be happy?
What does the sales receipt say...probably sold as-is, no warranty.
Tomorrow Monday would be the day to decide, 3 day grace period.
How was it paid for?
A lot to think about, but tomorrow is the day.

It does not say as is, all sales final or anything of the like. I will be calling them in the morning. I'd honestly rather they take it back. It's been misrepresented and if I keep it the liability would be on me, be it 1,556 hours or 10,000. Either way it's too much of a risk to gamble my $30k on.

Paid for via loan from USAA.

 

[Atypical_decorum]

Last time I checked, used equipment is ALWAYS sold as is. I also take it you didn't bother to go look at it and inspect it prior to buying it which is something I ALWAYS Do.

Drove 600 miles to inspect and buy my last Kubota.

Like I said previously, do a COMPLETE service on it, everything, fluids, filters, coolant, everything and carry on.

Far as being honest and truthful with you, you really have no recourse other than getting your panties in a wad and that is about it.

I don't answer my cell phone on Sunday either btw.

It was Saturday.

As for the time it takes driving to inspect it, I work. That is why I bought it from a kubota dealer.

 

[Atypical_decorum]

Agreed. I dont think there is intentional fraud. Dealer takes used tractor in trade, washes it, and posts it for sale. They don't typically do anything beyond that. They probably had the original owner sign a paper saying hours where accurate (assuming this wasn't an auction), but a dealer doesn't typically do much beyond wash and post.

For the OP; I would look at filters and see if any have hours marked on them. I agree that $30k is a lot of money to not get what you expected. If the 1500 hrs is accurate, the tires should have pretty moderate but noticeable wear, but this almost entire depends on the surface it was used on. If it came with a manual or anything, the previous owner may have made notes in that. If you can find concrete proof that it has 4k hours, (or anything more than about 500hours more then advertised); I would want to discuss what they are going to do to make you whole (but I don't know whether they have a legal obligation, if they didn't know).

There's one original front tire that is bald. The other 3 are newer. I'll look at filters. Nothing in the manual. I do know it was a kubota service techs tractor. But judging by the random wires he installed and shoddy electrical work, Im guessing he wasn't that good of a tech.

 

[Atypical_decorum]

I could easily see where this machine was traded, whatever 'once over' they did for check of function didn't set off any alarms and they recorded the hour meter and hoped off.
Weather this is their story or not, it's certainly well within reason to envision this exact scenario happening.
Besides the inoperable hr meter, are there other problems or reasons to believe that it's got higher hours? I can understand that it's easy to let your imagination run right away to the worst conclusion. This is also easy to imagine that the guy that traded it was aware and intentionally didn't inform the dealership.
Heck it sounds like it took you 2 hours to notice this. The dealer himself may not have even sat in the seat and the few moves around the dealership (wash, oil change? air in the tires, etc) may have been done by different employees.
I sympathize with the situation but I wouldn't hold my breath for a warm fuzzy feeling. Fix this and move on unless the dealer can find you some service records where the hours are noted.

It took about an hour because I was moving some dirt I needed moved. Then I noticed it so I turned the pto on and kept going incase it was linked. I checked again and it wasn't working. I watched it closely and saw the 1/10hour number very slight jumping like the gears weren't engaging or had lost there mesh.


The front left tire is bald. The front right is new, same model, with 2inches of rib. The thing that stands out to me the dealer neglected to inform me about was that the entire steering column is loose as is the steering wheel bushings. The column shift lever also is sloppy and hard to get into F or R with how much everything around it moves.

Hour wise, I expect a 1500 machine to be much tighter, as I think most of us would. I wouldn't be surprised if this tractor had 6000+ hours.

 

[Atypical_decorum]

May have is the key word. May have or might doesn’t go anywhere in court. Does anybody have proof that the hour meter didn’t stop working on the transport to the OP? It could in theory be correct besides the 2 hours the op used it.

I looked at the video of the guy driving to show it's it's shifting ability. As he swung the camera around, I saw the tach was not registering the engine RPM. I didn't see it as the time, but frame by frame you could see it. They knew it was disconnected or broken. Not something that happened in transport.

 

[Fixastuff]

Buying used sight unseen is a gamble. When gambling sometimes you lose sometimes you win.

My only advise is when you call the dealer just tell him your concerns and see what he will do. If you start off with accusations of hour meter fraud I don't think you get a good result.

 

[4570Man]

It was Saturday.

As for the time it takes driving to inspect it, I work. That is why I bought it from a kubota dealer.

You bought a tractor that’s old enough to have a drivers license. Buying used from a dealer really doesn’t mean squat. You should have inspected it yourself or at the minimum paid some to go do it.

 

[Atypical_decorum]

You bought a tractor that’s old enough to have a drivers license. Buying used from a dealer really doesn’t mean squat. You should have inspected it yourself or at the minimum paid some to go do it.

They're a kubota dealer.

 

[Atypical_decorum]

Buying used sight unseen is a gamble. When gambling sometimes you lose sometimes you win.

My only advise is when you call the dealer just tell him your concerns and see what he will do. If you start off with accusations of hour meter fraud I don't think you get a good result.

Didn't plan on coming in hot. I'd rather this be solved peacefully and amicablely.

Buying used golf clubs or a fridge sight unseen is a gamble. Buying a kubota from a kubota dealer shouldn't be.

 

[paulsharvey]

The one original front tire (if it's truly orginal) that is nearly wrong out, could be a sign that is has more than 1500 hours, but it could have been a road mowing machine, and that would be perfectly in-line with the hours. The backs and other front being newer, surely they didn't wear the backs out in 1500 hours, but probably they were damaged? I would 'think' the rears would last 2500-3000 hours with 'normal' use.

 

[4570Man]

They're a kubota dealer.

They probably took that on trade a few days or weeks ago and didn’t do a test anymore involved than driving in a few circles. Why would buying from a dealer guarantee a better product?