Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[WinterDeere]

"Dying gas station model"?
EVs made up something like 6% of NEW car sales in 2023. The total percentage of EVs as part of the total vehicle fleet is miniscule. Gas stations aren't going away anytime soon.

Yes, as in the gas station model of EV charging, using only charging stations rather than at-home charging. I'm honestly not understanding how you could have read 13,700 posts in this thread, probably containing many hundreds of mentions of this term, and still not grasped its meaning.

I suspect you are drastically underestimating the kw costs for apartment landlords to upgrade the services in their buildings and the years required for that expensive turnover to occur. Let alone the city upgrades to infrastructure to add 50 amps to every house/ street , and time and hardware/ resource shortages.

Costs that will be passed onto the consumer, no doubt. But if the number seems too large, then I think you're underestimating what I spend in gasoline over the lifetime of a vehicle, let alone the lifetime of the 30A or 50A receptacle that will replace it!

It'd be useful to have someone compare the cost of installation to the dollar value of fuel savings. Landlords will use this as a marketing tool, to attract renters at higher prices, just one more investment like new flooring or appliances. The cost will be borne by the renter, but when compared to fuel savings... what's the net?

Just so you can remember who is on which team, I have no horse in this race. I don't own an EV, and I'm not a big fan of them. But I'm an engineer, and I can do basic math. EV's are our near-term future, for most urban and suburban dwellers, like them or not. Rural will continue to favor ICE, at the current state of technology and infrastructure.

 

[WinterDeere]

I see with the cold temps, just like last year, EV owners are having big issues charging as in no charge..

Charging is affected by battery temperature. They will still charge cold, but only very inefficiently. Best to know when you'll be charging, and start a battery heating cycle in advance. Of course, if you're scraping the bottom of the charge barrel, you may not have electrons to spare for the heaters, as you limp toward the charging station. Plan your routes, accordingly.

 

[WinterDeere]

One thing for certain and that is, I'll never upgrade ANY of my rentals to charge toasters. They want to drive a toaster, they can pay for the infrastructure to charge it...

Why? Are these high-end rentals, or more budget-minded? If high end, then you're seriously limiting your rental pool by not offering renter-paid electric service at the parking location.

I never worried about fire with any of our rentals, and we owned 40 rental properties at one point. That's what insurance is for. It's not my house.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Yes, as in the gas station model of EV charging, using only charging stations rather than at-home charging. I'm honestly not understanding how you could have read 13,700 posts in this thread, probably containing many hundreds of mentions of this term, and still not grasped its meaning.



Costs that will be passed onto the consumer, no doubt. But if the number seems too large, then I think you're underestimating what I spend in gasoline over the lifetime of a vehicle, let alone the lifetime of the 30A or 50A receptacle that will replace it!

It'd be useful to have someone compare the cost of installation to the dollar value of fuel savings. Landlords will use this as a marketing tool, to attract renters at higher prices, just one more investment like new flooring or appliances. The cost will be borne by the renter, but when compared to fuel savings... what's the net?

Just so you can remember who is on which team, I have no horse in this race. I don't own an EV, and I'm not a big fan of them. But I'm an engineer, and I can do basic math. EV's are our near-term future, for most urban and suburban dwellers, like them or not. Rural will continue to favor ICE, at the current state of technology and infrastructure.

Certainly not what I spend.
I can buy a nice ICE for $25K.
An EV is over $50K...so let's say $25K difference.
Gas here is $2.75...so let's say $3/gal.
My annual driving is 6K/ year...but we'll double that to 12,000/ year.
I get over 30 mpg...let's say it's 30.
So $1,200/ year in gasoline. 10 years that's $12,000. So EV more than double...but that assumes I don't invest the $25K savings which I would and assumes EV charging is free which it isn't.
No the ICE doesn't have FSD which I would never want or need...or heated seats or steering wheel.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Why? Are these high-end rentals, or more budget-minded? If high end, then you're seriously limiting your rental pool by not offering renter-paid electric service at the parking location.

I never worried about fire with any of our rentals, and we owned 40 rental properties at one point. That's what insurance is for. It's not my house.

Soooo when are you getting your toaster?

 

[WinterDeere]

Certainly not what I spend.
I can buy a nice ICE for $25K.
An EV is over $50K...so let's say $25K difference.
Gas here is $2.75...so let's say $3/gal.
My annual driving is 6K/ year...but we'll double that to 12,000/ year.
I get over 30 mpg...let's say it's 30.
So $1,200/ year in gasoline. 10 years that's $12,000. So EV more than double...but that assumes I don't invest the $25K savings which I would and assumes EV charging is free which it isn't.
No the ICE doesn't have FSD which I would never want or need...or heated seats or steering wheel.

All due respect, Fuddy. I have a lot of admiration for you. But if you're buying ICE's for $25k, they're not "nice"!

 

[WinterDeere]

Soooo when are you getting your toaster?

Not in any rush. My oldest vehicle is presently my 2015 RAM pickup, and the pickup truck is probably the last vehicle I'd want to replace with an EV. My wife's daily driver, grocery-getter and kid-hauler, would be the prime candidate for EV replacement, but it's a 2020. We probably won't replace that until at least 2030, so that's likely when we'll buy our first EV.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

If Germany is losing their automotive grip to China and the USA Big 3 is down sizing their EV efforts when we be in the same boat?

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

All due respect, Fuddy. I have a lot of admiration for you. But if you're buying ICE's for $25k, they're not "nice"!

Respect here as well...
Define "nice" though?
We need getting point A-B. A $25,000 ICE will do that just fine. What would a more expensive car have that would improve the A-B trip?

 

[NoTrespassing]

2024 Nissan Versa: $16,130
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage: $16,695
2024 Kia Forte: $19,790
2024 Hyundai Venue: $19,800
2024 Kia Soul: $19,990
2024 Chevrolet Trax: $20,400
2024 Nissan Kicks: $20,790
2024 Nissan Sentra: $20,790
2024 Volkswagen Jetta $21,435
2024 Hyundai Elantra: $21,475
2024 Toyota Corolla: $21,900
2024 Buick Envista: $22,400
2024 Subaru Impreza: $22,995
2024 Chevrolet Trailblazer: $23,100
2024 Ford Maverick: $23,400
2024 Honda Civic: $23,950
2024 Volkswagen Taos: $23,995
2024 Honda HR-V: $24,100
2024 Hyundai Kona: $24,100
2024 Mazda3: $24,170
2024 Kia Seltos: $24,390
2024 Subaru Legacy: $24,895
2024 Mazda CX-30: $24,995