An EV??????`

[RolandW]

@sunandsand,

Is your idea of Americans buying Chinese made BYD cars a good thing?

I’m not being confrontational. There’s no wrong answer here.

I just want you to tell all of us “ignoramuses” on electric cars why that would be a good thing?

I don't believe sunandsand called anybody an ignoramus.
While he does make assumptions that I find hard to swallow ("...in a few years, [tenacious EV fires] will be a non-issue"), I like the tone of his comment. Consumers and producers should be free to trade as they see fit. When blowhard politicians impose a massive tariff, consumers are the ones who are forced to pay it when they have to fork over more for the foreign-made good or its domestically produced equivalent. It wastes resources and makes us all poorer. The global division of labor is a marvelous thing, but useless politicians, many of whom have never in their lives produced anything that people would voluntarily pay their own money for, love to hoodwink voters into hating it.

 

[Hay Dude]

I don't believe sunandsand called anybody an ignoramus.

I am calling myself, and perhaps a few others here “ignoramuses” on EV’s because I am one. I don’t know a lot about them, I just don’t want them mandated on me. I live in one of the 9 states they are to be mandated on, so it’s important to me to know why it’s attractive to buy a Chinese made EV. I can’t afford a Tesla.

While he does make assumptions that I find hard to swallow ("...in a few years, [tenacious EV fires] will be a non-issue"), I like the tone of his comment. Consumers and producers should be free to trade as they see fit. When blowhard politicians impose a massive tariff, consumers are the ones who are forced to pay it when they have to fork over more for the foreign-made good or its domestically produced equivalent. It wastes resources and makes us all poorer. The global division of labor is a marvelous thing, but useless politicians, many of whom have never in their lives produced anything that people would voluntarily pay their own money for, love to hoodwink voters into hating it.

Maybe they are trying to protect America from a complete takeover of everything we own & buy being made in china?

 

[RolandW]

I am calling myself, and perhaps a few others here “ignoramuses” on EV’s because I am one. I don’t know a lot about them, I just don’t want them mandated on me. I live in one of the 9 states they are to be mandated on, so it’s important to me to know why it’s attractive to buy a Chinese made EV. I can’t afford a Tesla.


Maybe they are trying to protect America from a complete takeover of everything we own & buy being made in china?

When you enclose a word in quotation marks, you denote that it's what somebody else said. Agreed about the EV mandates, as you can see from my other comments.
You seem to have a much higher opinion of American politicians than I have. They are mostly lying, self-interested losers who think that voters will rally behind them any time they promise to save us from the latest boogieman. Just as Americans should be free to purchase whatever types of vehicles they choose, they also should be free to choose the producers they buy from. If great numbers of them choose to shun foreign manufacturers, then so be it. I just don't want the proven liars in DC making that choice for me. Self-sufficiency might sound noble, but it is a recipe for a miserable, hand-to-mouth existence. Politicians should mind their own business and stop poking hornet's nests for personal gain.

 

[Hay Dude]

When you enclose a word in quotation marks, you denote that it's what somebody else said.

It also denotes a feeling the quoter has that is read-into your post.

Agreed about the EV mandates, as you can see from my other comments.

The mandates are part of the reason we are forced into limited choices. Those choices have a lot of Chinese made components and geo-political implications in them. It’s pretty clear ICE vehicles have traditionally had more US made components in them. Yes, i know about Tesla, but they are at prices unreachable by most.

You seem to have a much higher opinion of American politicians than I have.

They are mostly lying, self-interested losers who think that voters will rally behind them any time they promise to save us from the latest boogieman.

No, I don’t have a high opinion of them.

Just as Americans should be free to purchase whatever types of vehicles they choose, they also should be free to choose the producers they buy from. If great numbers of them choose to shun foreign manufacturers, then so be it. I just don't want the proven liars in DC making that choice for me. Self-sufficiency might sound noble, but it is a recipe for a miserable, hand-to-mouth existence. Politicians should mind their own business and stop poking hornet's nests for personal gain.

See, I think being dependent upon China for everything is a miserable and a very dangerous existence.


But you choose, bro. You do you, I’ll do me.

I choose a Pro-America agenda. Choice? Of course. Mandates? Never.

 

[CliffordK]

How about a link to the video so we know the rest of the story.

I posted a longer video clip, post #3. It appears as if the photographer was simply driving by, and only had a short clip OF THE FIRE OF A GAS CAR AT A GAS STATION.

 

[RB5]

I have several issues with EVs. They don't do well in cold or extreme heat. The range drops. When it is 110 my gas powered F150 with max cooling can idle with the a/c running as long as I have fuel. I can also refuel almost anywhere in minutes. EVs are all touted as powerful, fast, great towing capacity. When you hook up a trailer and run the a/c on a hot day what happens to the range? The same thing that happens to the range in a gas powered truck. The difference is I can get gas at a lot of places. A lot of places I go have no charging stations. Where I live it is 20 - 45 minutes minimum to go to the store or get something to eat at a restaurant. I don't make very many trips right around the corner. Maybe an EV would be ok for just running around town close by. I would still want a gas powered truck as my other vehicle. Another problem I see is a lof the EVs tout these great 0 to 60 times to prove they are faster that gas powered vehicles. If you really want to do something, make them more efficient instead of faster. Take the range up to 750 miles on a charge with a little less power. Make it about the same capability as a gas vehicle instead of faster, but I guess "I'm faster" grabs headlines. Given the lack of charging facilities available here I would have range anxiety the entire time I was driving. That one fact by itself is enough for me to stick with gas. I remember renting one of those electric 25mph golf carts in Galveston one year when we took the kids there. Drove all over, but by late afternoon it could barely go up the hill on the way to drop it off. I know current EVs are nothing like those, but that would be playing over and over in my head a I suffered from range anxiety.

 

[CliffordK]

I have several issues with EVs. They don't do well in cold or extreme heat. The range drops. When it is 110 my gas powered F150 with max cooling can idle with the a/c running as long as I have fuel. I can also refuel almost anywhere in minutes. EVs are all touted as powerful, fast, great towing capacity. When you hook up a trailer and run the a/c on a hot day what happens to the range? The same thing that happens to the range in a gas powered truck. The difference is I can get gas at a lot of places. A lot of places I go have no charging stations. Where I live it is 20 - 45 minutes minimum to go to the store or get something to eat at a restaurant. I don't make very many trips right around the corner. Maybe an EV would be ok for just running around town close by. I would still want a gas powered truck as my other vehicle. Another problem I see is a lof the EVs tout these great 0 to 60 times to prove they are faster that gas powered vehicles. If you really want to do something, make them more efficient instead of faster. Take the range up to 750 miles on a charge with a little less power. Make it about the same capability as a gas vehicle instead of faster, but I guess "I'm faster" grabs headlines. Given the lack of charging facilities available here I would have range anxiety the entire time I was driving. That one fact by itself is enough for me to stick with gas. I remember renting one of those electric 25mph golf carts in Galveston one year when we took the kids there. Drove all over, but by late afternoon it could barely go up the hill on the way to drop it off. I know current EVs are nothing like those, but that would be playing over and over in my head a I suffered from range anxiety.

I think the speed thing may be Elon Musk and Tesla. Remember his first EV was a little convertible sports car, then killed the whole thing with a bunch of sedans.
Apparently at least the older Tesla motors were great for pulling a massive car 0 to 60, but weren't that great for a hauling application pulling pickup and massive trailer uphill.

I bumped into this article yesterday,

Detroit went all in on big, expensive EVs nobody wants. Here's what the data shows they'd rather buy.

It is a good article. Many people like economy vehicles, and "green". That doesn't necessarily include a $100K GMC Hummer Behemoth.

On the flip side, there are several "economy" EV commuters with a range of about 100 miles and no supercharging. I.E. You're stuck in town. Think Fiat 500 EV (before 2020), and Spark EV.

I think most consumers want to have their cake and eat it too. So, a car that costs pennies, is very efficient to drive, and will go a zillion miles on a recharge.

Aptera promises a lot of that... but has been having troubles getting their products out the door after their big X-Prize fail.

I do think the F150 market is a lucrative market if the EV manufactures break into that, but keep in mind that a F150 is a lot less expensive than a F350, and for a good reason.

Nonetheless, the Big Three have been avoiding plunging into the retail small car market for quite some time, and slowly whittle away at their market share.

My Transit Connect EV has about an 80 mile range. Fine for most around town shopping, although I have to be careful about doing a long drive, then going home and going out again. On 110V, it takes a very long time to recharge.

 

[RolandW]

But you choose, bro. You do you, I’ll do me.
I choose a Pro-America agenda. Choice? Of course. Mandates? Never.

But when they prohibit or put unaffordably high tariffs on foreign goods (like the 100 percent that Trump has threatened), they have taken that choice away. You still have your preferred option, but consumers who want those foreign goods no longer have theirs. It amounts to a mandate, because their right to choose has been taken away.
I won't buy a Chinese EV because I don't want an EV, period. But it is illogical to on the one hand say that it's wrong for the government to dictate economic activity by taking away your option for an ICE vehicle, while on the other hand saying that it's okay for them to dictate which suppliers we may buy from. What you buy and from whom you buy it are both components of economic liberty, and economic liberty is pro-America.
An edit: My calling politicians self-interested was not a very useful description, since all humans tend to act in their own self-interest. Greedy would have been a better word.

 

[tradosaurus]

ICE vehicle catches fire at gas station?
Time to get rid of my ICE now for my own personal safety.

 

[RB5]

I think the speed thing may be Elon Musk and Tesla. Remember his first EV was a little convertible sports car, then killed the whole thing with a bunch of sedans.
Apparently at least the older Tesla motors were great for pulling a massive car 0 to 60, but weren't that great for a hauling application pulling pickup and massive trailer uphill.

I bumped into this article yesterday,

Detroit went all in on big, expensive EVs nobody wants. Here's what the data shows they'd rather buy.

It is a good article. Many people like economy vehicles, and "green". That doesn't necessarily include a $100K GMC Hummer Behemoth.

On the flip side, there are several "economy" EV commuters with a range of about 100 miles and no supercharging. I.E. You're stuck in town. Think Fiat 500 EV (before 2020), and Spark EV.

I think most consumers want to have their cake and eat it too. So, a car that costs pennies, is very efficient to drive, and will go a zillion miles on a recharge.

Aptera promises a lot of that... but has been having troubles getting their products out the door after their big X-Prize fail.

I do think the F150 market is a lucrative market if the EV manufactures break into that, but keep in mind that a F150 is a lot less expensive than a F350, and for a good reason.

Nonetheless, the Big Three have been avoiding plunging into the retail small car market for quite some time, and slowly whittle away at their market share.

My Transit Connect EV has about an 80 mile range. Fine for most around town shopping, although I have to be careful about doing a long drive, then going home and going out again. On 110V, it takes a very long time to recharge.

Yeah Musk built mostly luxury versions or more expensive models at first from what I remember. Jumping up and down and saying how fast the car is gets headlines and some buyers that want something different. Long term needs to be affordability and efficiency.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Anyway, the Silverado WT EV looks appealing, and does about 450 miles per charge. I don't think I could drive anywhere 450 miles without taking a half hour break before getting back on the road. Even with a gas vehicle, there would be a gas stop, restroom break, and snack stop eating up at least that half hour that the EV might need to recharge. Towing range is undoubtedly reduced, but still would be good enough for most of what I would tow.

Even if a Silverado WT could tow the trailer I recently picked up 800 some miles from here, the trip wouldn't have been quite the same.

Yes, I stopped for fuel along the way since the 114 gallon capacity wouldn't take me there and back. Starting at 2 AM, it had been a long day so I did have to stop and sleep for two hours with about 250 miles still to go.

But those are the only two reasons I do stop on a trip. No eating etc. The following week I went some 650 miles in the opposite direction pulling my toy hauler. Filled up once.

Even if an electric pickup could've towed the trailers, it would've taken a small eternity to make those two trips - and that's if there were chargers along the highways I spent the majority of the miles on.

EVs are far from ready for me, and I'm not ready for them.

 

[sunandsand]

I would never be so uncouth as to call anyone an ignoramus, either online or to their face (with the possible exception of some of our politicians. They should wear NASCAR style jackets so we can see who is sponsoring (owns) them, but that's a separate issue.)


I try to buy American if the US product suits me. Unfortunately, that isn't always possible. I try NOT to buy Chinese because they aren't our friends. Things change - 80 years ago, Japan, Germany and Italy were our mortal enemies. Now we are driving around in German and Japanese cars, sometimes wearing Italian suits and so on, and we think nothing of it. Fact is, one size does not fit all, even with domestic products.

Here on TBN, many of us need the capabilities of a full sized F-whatever gasoline or diesel pickup truck. There's no shame in that, it is the vehicle that fits the requirements and can do the job properly. It is the right tool for the job. (But I do have to laugh when I see a monster bro-dozer, lift kit and all, driven by someone the height of my wife - 5'2" - parked on someone's lawn at a yard sale . . . )

Buy the vehicle that meets your needs. You might need more than one vehicle, a truck for work and a small (possibly electric) runabout for errands.

Are we being "forced" to buy electric cars? I don't think so, but we are definitely being encouraged to. Some states have banned the sale of new ICE cars after 2035, but we can still buy used, and by 2035, electric cars will have become very capable indeed. Eleven years is a long time in electronics, and remember that the ICE has had over 100 years of development so any improvements are going to be incremental at best.

As to BYD's $10K or $15K car, when the average sale price of a new car here is about $45,000, and the average sale price of a used car is about $24,000, there are going to be a lot of people who will overlook things like slave labor and geopolitics. If China Inc. can duplicate something like a Honda Accord or a Camry for $25K or less, brand new, Honda and Toyota are going to be in big trouble, just like GM, Ford and Chrysler got hammered in the 70s and 80s when the Japanese car companies absolutely ate their lunches. If we want to stay competitive, we are going to have to sharpen up our game.

A lot of the "bad press" about EVs is courtesy of the big oil companies who aren't anxious to lose their cash cows (a/k/a you and me) to alternative fuels. They are using the identical arguments as the tobacco companies used to claim smoking wasn't harmful. FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) are their comrades in arms. Unfortunately, many of our politicians and legislators are beholden to them for campaign donations, so while they can't actively come out FOR electrification, they can subtly obstruct it.

Or not subtly. I want solar cells on my roof to charge my electric car - net fuel cost is zero. Except the solar cells have fat tariffs on them, which raises the cost and extends the breakeven point by years, the power company - with approval from the PSC - discourages interconnection and discourages net metering so I can't sell surplus power to them, some states have punitive registration fees for EVs ($250 in New Jersey), all justified by convoluted imaginary logic which results in actual barriers to adoption.

Some of this doesn't even make sense. I have a neighbor who rails against solar power, he hates it, he hates the idea of it, he insists it is no damn good and never will be - but his daughter convinced him to install solar panels and when he catches his breath between rants, he boasts about his $25/month power bill . . . go figure . . .

Best Regards,
Mike/Florida

 

[JurassicJet]

That was an awesome post Mike!

 

[ultrarunner]

Plus the latest proposal is to impose a flat monthly infrastructure fee of say $25 per month on electric bills and less for lower income.

They reason is too many with solar now only pay the $15 monthly meter fee.

So now the minimum would be $40?

The selling point is those using but without solar to offset would see price per kW reduced.

 

[bmg88201]

Correct me I’m wrong, but I heard that some states are considering a road tax on EV’s since most states depend on part of the sales gas price that goes to upkeep of the roads. It would be imposed on how many miles the EV has driven and then taxed on that amount of miles. Also I read where most EV’s weigh considerably more due to the weight of the batteries and these cars eat tires like candy.

 

[sd455dan]

[ how many miles the EV has driven and then taxed on that amount of miles. Also I read where most EV’s weigh considerably more due to the weight of the batteries and these cars eat tires like candy.
[/QUOTE]

Tesla specific but many responders. In our state it is an additional $140 fee every year

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thr...you-a-penalty-for-owning-a-tesla.320468/added to the registration.

 

[bmg88201]

Seems fair that an EV should be taxed same as gas burner to pay for upkeep of the roads.

 

[ultrarunner]

Seems fair that an EV should be taxed same as gas burner to pay for upkeep of the roads.

If you charge here from home add 10% utility tax.

 

[sd455dan]

Seems fair that an EV should be taxed same as gas burner to pay for upkeep of the roads.

I am ok with paying it, but do pay registration on other ICE vehicles already.

Oh well the roads are getting better here.

 

[sd455dan]

If you charge here from home add 10% utility tax.

Wouldn't some of that be offset by some of the California buy an EV rebate?