Share Pics of People Hauling or Towing Something Wrong

[Renze]

At some point after the 80's. Not sure when. I'm just saying that the eventual emissions stuff really killed mileage. I just know that little diesel Chevette could get 51 mpg easily and by the 90's there wasn't a vehicle on the road that could get into the 50's and I'm pretty sure there still isn't today. The 44 from Renze is pretty darn high for today's vehicles, AFAIK.

The reason that todays vehicles dont get that mileage is horsepower. My brother got pretty high mileage with his 1983 Mercedes 200D with 55hp.. it just couldnt keep up with other traffic...

Having horsepower means that you will use it, unless you really try to hold back. I can get 23km on a liter, which is 54mpg while driving as slow as a diesel Chevette or a 190D. 50mpg is manageable while keeping up with the flow of traffic, and without a heavy trailer i cannot get below 40mpg.

Funny thing is, the European Opel Kadett, the Chevettes European ancestor, didnt have a diesel option untill the next generation D.

Opel Kadett C - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Renze]

I drove a mid-1990's diesel VW Passat wagon company car for a few weeks in Germany ca.1998, and I'll double-check with one of my old work buddies this weekend, but memory tells me it did roughly 60 mpg from one fill to the next.

1998 would have been the old 1.9 TDI with either 90 or 110hp... or even the 1.9 IDI turbo with 75hp.

The 1.9 TDI with electronic pump nozzle injection, introduced in 1998 did 136hp. Then, suddenly every salesman who didnt like diesels, wanted one because it ran as smooth and as quick as a gas engine, yet with 2/3 of the fuel consumption. It created a revolution here.

Mercedes never had a mechanical direct injection diesel, they went from IDI straight to common rail

I remember specifically tracking it, because fuel was so absurdly expensive in Germany, by comparison to here.

My brother drives 50km to Germany to fill up the tank, two jerrycans with gas, one with diesel for his tractor, and a bag full of cigarettes. Germany is quite cheap with fuel compared to other European countries.

The government has increased excise on tobacco last year. Tobacco shops see a decrease in turnover of 80% and the state is missing millions in excise because people near the border buy in Germany and people from Turkish origin bring it from there.

...so, they want to turn the excise increase back, hoping that the gap in the state budget will close

Who would have thought that it wasnt for our health nor the environment, but just about the money ?

Laffer curve - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Renze]

View attachment 1511063

Bruce

Yeah, its about time you guys hop on that bus.
Last time you guys said you wanted in was in the mid 60s. Europe went from the DIN metric standard to the ISO metric standard to meet you halfway, my tractors from the mid 60s are ISO fasteners, from the 70s are back to DIN because America pulled the turd back in, so Europe went back to the DIN standard which they already had in the field for half a century

Automobile industry still uses ISO though...

 

[Jstpssng]

Who would have thought that it wasnt for our health nor the environment, but just about the money

Me, for one

 

[WinterDeere]

The reason that todays vehicles dont get that mileage is horsepower. My brother got pretty high mileage with his 1983 Mercedes 200D with 55hp.. it just couldnt keep up with other traffic...

Yeah, that's the greater part of it. However, those who claim emissions equipment hurt mileage are correct, even if to a lesser degree than they think. One of the fundamental changes made when emissions came along, was to increase engine operating temperature. Increased temperature means increased heat loss, and since heat is energy, this translates to increased fuel consumption.

I am not sure how many actual miles per gallon this cost, but it was enough for every car manufacturer to start covering their engines in plastic cowlings. The same ignorant people who think emissions are 100% responsible for their reduced mpg, are the same idiots usually claiming all that extra money spent on plastic is "just for looks".

1998 would have been the old 1.9 TDI with either 90 or 110hp... or even the 1.9 IDI turbo with 75hp.

The 1.9 TDI with electronic pump nozzle injection, introduced in 1998 did 136hp.

I'm actually supposed to talk to an old buddy from Stollberg this weekend, and he has a lot more hours on that car than me, so I'll ask him which engine it was. He has a better memory than me, too. He works for Audi and Lamborghini (both VW companies).

My brother drives 50km to Germany to fill up the tank, two jerrycans with gas, one with diesel for his tractor, and a bag full of cigarettes. Germany is quite cheap with fuel compared to other European countries.

Wow... had no idea. Back when I was working there regularly to be driving and filling cars, fuel here in PA was $1.00 ± $0.10 per gallon throughout the year, and I remember paying something like $4.50 - $5.00 per gallon in Germany. Their "per liter" price was higher than our "per gallon" price, with something like 3.6x difference between the two units.

Europe went from the DIN metric standard to the ISO metric standard to meet you halfway, my tractors from the mid 60s are ISO fasteners, from the 70s are back to DIN because America pulled the turd back in, so Europe went back to the DIN standard which they already had in the field for half a century

Thank you for explaining that. I've always wondered why these two standards existed, but had just assumed that Germany was DIN and the rest of the world was ISO.

 

[ptsg]

I know first hand that emissions do hurt mileage by a lot actually. My 2016 Mitsubishi Outlander with a 150hp 2.2L turbo diesel engine goes from 43 MPG to 29 MPG during regen. Also, since it injects extra fuel during exhaust stroke for the regen process, if you're doing city driving during regen, it will contaminate the oil with fuel.

Without emissions on it? I have no doubts it would get like 47/48 MPG.

The small 2015 Renault Clio 4 that my sister has, will do 67 MPG easily. It does have DPF as with most diesels but it uses an exhaust valve that closes to increase DPF temps during regen instead of dumping extra fuel at it. Fairly trouble free system as long it doesn't do city driving at least 90% of the time. Again, without DPF? Probably would jump to 70 to 74 MPG, easily.

I'm just glad my 2010 Mitsubishi L200 180HP 2.5L turbo diesel pick up truck was one of the last ones in the assembly line without a DPF. It does have a small catalytic converter and EGR but that's usually pretty much trouble free. Even though I had a EGR cooler crack and almost toasting the cylinder head had I not caught the temp gauge to take way too much time to climb. Yep, head had pretty much no coolant at that point.

This one does about 30 MPG empty ( no trailer) and about 17 MPG pulling the full 2700 kgs (6000 lbs) tow rating it has.

 

[LouNY]

My easiest to see change was on my 2015 RAM 1500 with the little 3.0 V6 diesel, it was getting consistent tank to tank averages of 24 to 26 mpg, after the mandatory recall for the emissions "fix" it never got to the 24 mpg per tank it was usually 20-22 mpg and actually had a few tanks of 18 mpg.

 

[gstrom99]

Do any other country still commonly use miles or gallons any more? A quick web search says US and sometimes UK.

It seems conversion to "the metric system" never got completed here in the US. My tool box has both SAE and metric, and I never know which to grab until I put wrench on something.

 

[gstrom99]

Thank you for explaining that. I've always wondered why these two standards existed, but had just assumed that Germany was DIN and the rest of the world was ISO.

Please explain the difference between DIN and ISO...

 

[Grumpycat]

What vehicle do you have that gets 44.5 mpg? That's almost as good as the diesel Chevette my parents had in the early 80's that got 50 mpg before emissions junk came along.

You are not supposed to do math on this forum!