Colorado wolf reintroduction

[Rockbadchild]

Last winter even Canada talk about passing a bill to protect the wolf at the federal level, the trappers federation push back it is still being reviewed for consideration, the Government want to protect 30% of land and water, I even saw/filled a survey about the great lakes that seem to be aim to see if the public would support to protect the great lakes (that would mean no moto boat or farming on its bank).... what frustrate me is folks down south see the vast North and think no one live there lets make all this a conservation land and we will look good and it won't affect use, even if they pass a vote we are vastly outnumbers a few propaganda commercial and email to green peace folks and we don't stand a chance.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Great point that I do not disagree with. However, is it possible that BLM land, which you have access to could be privately owned by someone who would not give you access to it? Public land is a unique thing to our country, and one of the best things about it. Unfortunately, we need the money from those in the city to help afford it.

what do you mean you need their money to afford it ? its already own by the government

 

[Renze]

Ranching is being legislated out of existence from several different angles.
Wolves are another small bite off the Ranchers profit margin.

Sounds like sheep farming in Holland... Lots of wolf kills. Even chihuahuas gets snatched with leash and all in city parks. The greens still tell us the wolf belongs here and farmers are too greedy to put up decent wolf proof fences. Despite plenty of footage of wolfs jumping over "wolf proof fences" as approved by the wolf foundation...

Good thing that Europarliament chairwoman Ursula von der Leyens children found their Shetland pony with its guts ripped out a few yards and nothing eaten, behind their own within a "wolf proof fence"

I am sorry for her children, but sacrifices must be made before people get real about wolves.

City folks only know the Big Bad Wolf from the comic book, which is too darn stupid to catch the Three Piglets. A jogger had an altercation with a wolf 3 weeks ago. Society just needs more of those wakeup calls to realise why our ancestors made the wolf extinct in our highly populated country: Wolves in densely populated areas get used to people, and become bolder and bolder that way.

 

[walhondingMF]

what do you mean you need their money to afford it ? its already own by the government

Point being that the government is tax funded. At some level, a small part of my taxes pays for federal land. If all rural public land purchase or maintenance was only only paid for with tax dollars from rural individuals, there wouldn't be a lot of funding.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Point being that the government is tax funded. At some level, a small part of my taxes pays for federal land. If all rural public land purchase or maintenance was only only paid for with tax dollars from rural individuals, there wouldn't be a lot of funding.

I understand the point on tax, I don't understand the part that your tax that pay for federal land what purchase or maintenance?

If anything the government generate revenue from public land for each tree that is harvest or tones extracted from mines or barrel of oil...

 

[JeepHead]

We don't have wolves here in Indiana but there was an Iowa tagged wolf found shot in a field close by a few years ago. The predators are certainly starting to come back here. We have a nice population of bobcat and actually just created our first ever hunting season on them slated for 2025. I hope I am lucky enough to harvest one for a full body mount.

The state's official stance is that cougars don't live here either, although I have seen one in the wild 3 different times close up. Had a neighbor even say she had a cougar and 3 cubs drinking from her pond several times.

And we occasionally have roaming black bears that don't recognize the state borderlines.

Indiana's official stance was that since these animals were not listed as an animal of this state, there were no protections on them. A few years ago the state caught a pic of a cougar on one of their own trail cams. Then they had sightings of the roaming black bear. After that, they acknowledged that these animals may occasionally pass through and made them illegal to shoot.

 

[walhondingMF]

I understand the point on tax, I don't understand the part that your tax that pay for federal land what purchase or maintenance?

If anything the government generate revenue from public land for each tree that is harvest or tones extracted from mines or barrel of oil...

True and that also contributes to funding. There are many revenue sources. At the basic, its public land, owned by all tax paying Americans and the federal government has the responsibility to manage it for us.
Legislation like the LWCF and the GAOA all require Congress to give funding to the BLM.
Without going to far in the weeds on this, I think you and I have a similar opinion on the wolves. Boyd really helped reinforce my ideas but also changed a few. Her opinion on Colorado was that the wolves were going to make it there anyway, why make it a public relations nightmare.
I watched a good documentary on the topic on PBS a few days ago. Both sides given a lot of opportunity to be expressed in it. Worth looking up on Youtube.

 

[Rockbadchild]

True and that also contributes to funding. There are many revenue sources. At the basic, its public land, owned by all tax paying Americans and the federal government has the responsibility to manage it for us.
Legislation like the LWCF and the GAOA all require Congress to give funding to the BLM.
Without going to far in the weeds on this, I think you and I have a similar opinion on the wolves. Boyd really helped reinforce my ideas but also changed a few. Her opinion on Colorado was that the wolves were going to make it there anyway, why make it a public relations nightmare.
I watched a good documentary on the topic on PBS a few days ago. Both sides given a lot of opportunity to be expressed in it. Worth looking up on Youtube.

I would agree but I am still wondering what cost public land bring to the table ? from what I can see it only bring revenue but I could be wrong...

I hate the left idea of what a wolf is, they think it's a cute big dog and they are deeply afraid of humans, yes they avoid you if they can but when you get face to face with one or many you better don't turn your back on them, and yet they are avoiding you because of hunting and trapping. I am against the protection of them, if you don't want to hunt them because the number are too small that's ok I agree with that but full on protection I strongly disagree that's pretty much the extent of my position.

 

[JeepHead]

I would agree but I am still wondering what cost public land bring to the table ? from what I can see it only bring revenue but I could be wrong...

I hate the left idea of what a wolf is, they think it's a cute big dog and they are deeply afraid of humans, yes they avoid you if they can but when you get face to face with one or many you better don't turn your back on them, and yet they are avoiding you because of hunting and trapping. I am against the protection of them, if you don't want to hunt them because the number are too small that's ok I agree with that but full on protection I strongly disagree that's pretty much the extent of my position.

You have to purchase the land. Public lands are being added regularly here in my state. They maintain the roads, build and maintain bridges, maintain the campsites that we get to use for free.. The roads signs which are constantly being replaced due to vandalism or theft. They create habitat such as building dams for waterways. trail maintenance for the horse and bike trails. Fire equipment, maintenance equipment, and all the staff salaries that provide all of this work..... There is a lot of cost in public lands...

 

[Rockbadchild]

You have to purchase the land. Public lands are being added regularly here in my state. They maintain the roads, build and maintain bridges, maintain the campsites that we get to use for free.. The roads signs which are constantly being replaced due to vandalism or theft. They create habitat such as building dams for waterways. trail maintenance for the horse and bike trails. Fire equipment, maintenance equipment, and all the staff salaries that provide all of this work..... There is a lot of cost in public lands...

Ha I see, It's different here in canada, so that's why I am confuse... Purchase from who ?

 

[JeepHead]

Ha I see, It's different here in canada, so that's why I am confuse... Purchase from who ?

Private sellers, businesses, or sometimes the feds will buy from the state. We just gained 4400 acres of public land that was bought from an energy company...

 

[Rockbadchild]

Private sellers, businesses, or sometimes the feds will buy from the state. We just gained 4400 acres of public land that was bought from an energy company...

ha ok gotcha.... private proprety get purchase by the state or federal to become public land...

 

[jyoutz]

ha ok gotcha.... private proprety get purchase by the state or federal to become public land...

Most often it’s trading of parcels between public and private ownership. Some public lands are located close to communities and are wanted for development. The private owner will trade more remote lands adjacent to public lands that are better managed for natural resources and public uses.

 

[walhondingMF]

I would agree but I am still wondering what cost public land bring to the table ? from what I can see it only bring revenue but I could be wrong...

I hate the left idea of what a wolf is, they think it's a cute big dog and they are deeply afraid of humans, yes they avoid you if they can but when you get face to face with one or many you better don't turn your back on them, and yet they are avoiding you because of hunting and trapping. I am against the protection of them, if you don't want to hunt them because the number are too small that's ok I agree with that but full on protection I strongly disagree that's pretty much the extent of my position.

From what I just looked up, the 2 acts I listed combine for just under $3 billion a year, and that's just 2 congressional funding requirements.
I tend to try and lean into the opinions of professionals. I would want to make decisions based off of what the biologists like Diane Boyd say. After their opinion, then the public debate can start.
I only have a few personal stories regarding wolves. They are a fascinating animal to me, maybe my favorite in nature. I teach my students as much as I have and can learn about them. But I am not naive to what they are. Maybe contributes to my fascination.
There is a great scene in Hostile Planet episode on the Grasslands. It is of the largest wolves on earth in Alberta hunting a woods bison. Its just awesome to watch, but it ends how you expect it too and the footage does not hide it. It is a lesson to my students. This is how it really is.

 

[CalG]

I'm OK with the higher predators around. God knows we have deer enough.
BUT....

If livestock is lost, the process to be restored $$$ should be as simple as having a game wardens signature, and payment made from an established fund . (Which on a national level would be VERY SMALL PEANUTS!)

Cat? Good riddance. Dogs? Keep 'em close!

We don't have Catamounts in Vermont, but when you see one, you are not supposed to shoot it. ;-)

 

[etpm]

I hope I am lucky enough to harvest one for a full body mount.

If you "harvest" one would you eat it?
Eric

 

[Rockbadchild]

From what I just looked up, the 2 acts I listed combine for just under $3 billion a year, and that's just 2 congressional funding requirements.
I tend to try and lean into the opinions of professionals. I would want to make decisions based off of what the biologists like Diane Boyd say. After their opinion, then the public debate can start.
I only have a few personal stories regarding wolves. They are a fascinating animal to me, maybe my favorite in nature. I teach my students as much as I have and can learn about them. But I am not naive to what they are. Maybe contributes to my fascination.
There is a great scene in Hostile Planet episode on the Grasslands. It is of the largest wolves on earth in Alberta hunting a woods bison. Its just awesome to watch, but it ends how you expect it too and the footage does not hide it. It is a lesson to my students. This is how it really is.

I have heard many stories from my grandpa and his friends like how they landed on a fresh kill site of a young cow that one single wolf took down, one of my uncle have been trapping for 30 some years, he got circled around by a pack once, he climb the beaver hut and waited out, we don’t comprehend or appreciate their intelligent until you try to trap one.

I have a big one rooming around my property, it’s the second year I see tracks I have seen him a few times last year a big one probably 100lbs he didn’t seem to care about me when I saw him he looked at me and carried on, he hasn’t came close to my horses yet but still a hairy feeling wen I go in the bush with my 3 dogs I don’t think he would go after them while I am around but more my dogs going after him… he has snatch a few dogs in my area…

I think I agreed with everything Dian said in the podcast other then her dismissal of wolf attacks, like from WW1 or WW2 against soldiers, that’s well documented from written account and testimonies and it happen in both wars, I personally watched interviews from veterans talking about. The Natives have stories of attack against them from their elders it happens, there are recent documentation in Canada and Alaska as well, super rare yes but many completely dismiss it but it happens.

from wiki

“The country with the most extensive historical records is France, where nearly 10,000 fatal attacks were documented from 1200 to 1920.[1][2][3] A study by the Norwegian Institute of Nature Research showed that there were eight fatal attacks in Europe and Russia, three in North America, and more than 200 in south Asia in the half-century up to 2002.[4] The updated edition of the study revealed 498 attacks on humans worldwide for the years 2002 to 2020, with 25 deaths, including 14 attributed to rabies.[5]“


“Wolf biologist L. David Mech hypothesized in 1998 that wolves generally avoid humans because of fear instilled by hunting.“

Wolf attack - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[etpm]

I wonder sometimes about animals being afraid of humans due to hunting. But with wolves I can understand it. Wolves are smart. At the University of Washington a study was done with crows. People put on masks that were unique and trapped crows while wearing the masks. While in captivity the crows were fed and so on. People who fed the crows and treated them nice wore one mask and people who trapped and treated them not so nicely wore a different mask. I wouldn't be at all surprised if wolves, coyotes, and bears can disseminate knowledge of threats that span generations. In the case of the Seattle crows they have done so for at least 17 years. Here is a link that explains the study way better than I just did, and there are many more: Crows hold grudges against individual humans for up to 17 years | Urban@UW
Eric

 

[Eaglesfate]

The real question is how many stoners will a wolf need to eat to get a buzz?

 

[Rockbadchild]

I wonder sometimes about animals being afraid of humans due to hunting. But with wolves I can understand it. Wolves are smart. At the University of Washington a study was done with crows. People put on masks that were unique and trapped crows while wearing the masks. While in captivity the crows were fed and so on. People who fed the crows and treated them nice wore one mask and people who trapped and treated them not so nicely wore a different mask. I wouldn't be at all surprised if wolves, coyotes, and bears can disseminate knowledge of threats that span generations. In the case of the Seattle crows they have done so for at least 17 years. Here is a link that explains the study way better than I just did, and there are many more: Crows hold grudges against individual humans for up to 17 years | Urban@UW
Eric

that’s nuts … crows are very smart … it’s a proven study that parents translate knowledge to they offspring, there’s a study conducted with mouse where they would make them learn a task once mastered they would mate them take their offsprings and put them through the same task as they did with their parents and they would learn it 40% quicker.