Anyone experienced increased NO2 emissions on modern tractors with DPF?

[Windblown]

I would be interested to know if others have run into issues with lung irritation/inflammation on newer emission controlled tractors that have a DPF system installed. I picked up a new tractor about 7 weeks ago and have put 60 hours on it so far. It's a diesel unit with DPF. I noticed a rather pungent smell coming from the exhaust (which NO2 has) while operating the tractor off and on from the beginning that I never noticed on any of the non-emission controlled tracts I have owned.

I found that after a few hours of operating the tractor that my throat was getting sore and felt a mild burning in my lungs along with a headache and stuffy nose which it turns out are all symptoms of high levels of NO2. I thought at first it might be unrelated to the tractor at all and instead be an allergy. Yet on days when I was outside working but not on the tractor I was not experiencing any trouble. This came to a breaking point early this week when after a long day on the tractor with about 7 runtime hours I felt quite ill and that night I had a terrible dry cough to go along with the sore throat and burning lungs. I got very little sleep and by the morning added heavy chills which turned out to be from a 101 degree fever. When I started coughing up phlegm with blood in it I went to an Urgent care to see what was up.

The urgent care checked for Covid, flu, & strep but all those were negative. They concluded that I had an unspecified viral respiratory infection and prescribed Albuterol and Prednisone and sent me on my way with instructions to return if no improvement was noted in the next few days. When asked they said environmental pollutants could cause the symptoms but it could also be the infection made me more sensitive to environmental factors.

It's now the evening of the following day after my Dr visit and two days off the tractor. I'm feeling MUCH better. The fever is gone, sore throat almost gone, and coughing very little and only occasionally is is spotting with blood when I cough some phlegm up. At the moment the question remains of which came first, the infection or the irritant/pollutant?

My plan is to stay off the tractor for a few more days and if then feeling completely well I'm going to put another long day of work on the tractor. I have a lot of tractor work to do and I also want to see if I develop the same symptoms again. If I do my next step will be to see the doctor again and also approach the dealer with what is going on and ask them to test my tractors NO2 output levels. Hopefully that's something they can do. I've found an NO2 detector on Amazon but it's $800 bucks and I'd prefer not to pay that to test it myself if possible since even if it shows a dangerous level it still will be up to the dealer to resolve it.

I know folks will likely be curious as to the tractor brand and model but at this point the reason I'm not mentioning the brand and model is that it's entirely possible that my suspicion that the tractor is producing excessive amounts of NO2 is unfounded and I don't want this to turn into brand bashing or be accused of brand bashing. I just want to be able to use my tractor and would like to know if anyone else has noticed similar issues on DPF equipped tractors. Hell, maybe I've suddenly become allergic to diesel fumes?

I promise I'll follow up with more info on my situation as I get it. Thanks in advance.

 

[rontaki]

I would be interested to know if others have run into issues with lung irritation/inflammation on newer emission controlled tractors that have a DPF system installed. I picked up a new tractor about 7 weeks ago and have put 60 hours on it so far. It's a diesel unit with DPF. I noticed a rather pungent smell coming from the exhaust (which NO2 has) while operating the tractor off and on from the beginning that I never noticed on any of the non-emission controlled tracts I have owned.

I found that after a few hours of operating the tractor that my throat was getting sore and felt a mild burning in my lungs along with a headache and stuffy nose which it turns out are all symptoms of high levels of NO2. I thought at first it might be unrelated to the tractor at all and instead be an allergy. Yet on days when I was outside working but not on the tractor I was not experiencing any trouble. This came to a breaking point early this week when after a long day on the tractor with about 7 runtime hours I felt quite ill and that night I had a terrible dry cough to go along with the sore throat and burning lungs. I got very little sleep and by the morning added heavy chills which turned out to be from a 101 degree fever. When I started coughing up phlegm with blood in it I went to an Urgent care to see what was up.

The urgent care checked for Covid, flu, & strep but all those were negative. They concluded that I had an unspecified viral respiratory infection and prescribed Albuterol and Prednisone and sent me on my way with instructions to return if no improvement was noted in the next few days. When asked they said environmental pollutants could cause the symptoms but it could also be the infection made me more sensitive to environmental factors.

It's now the evening of the following day after my Dr visit and two days off the tractor. I'm feeling MUCH better. The fever is gone, sore throat almost gone, and coughing very little and only occasionally is is spotting with blood when I cough some phlegm up. At the moment the question remains of which came first, the infection or the irritant/pollutant?

My plan is to stay off the tractor for a few more days and if then feeling completely well I'm going to put another long day of work on the tractor. I have a lot of tractor work to do and I also want to see if I develop the same symptoms again. If I do my next step will be to see the doctor again and also approach the dealer with what is going on and ask them to test my tractors NO2 output levels. Hopefully that's something they can do. I've found an NO2 detector on Amazon but it's $800 bucks and I'd prefer not to pay that to test it myself if possible since even if it shows a dangerous level it still will be up to the dealer to resolve it.

I know folks will likely be curious as to the tractor brand and model but at this point the reason I'm not mentioning the brand and model is that it's entirely possible that my suspicion that the tractor is producing excessive amounts of NO2 is unfounded and I don't want this to turn into brand bashing or be accused of brand bashing. I just want to be able to use my tractor and would like to know if anyone else has noticed similar issues on DPF equipped tractors. Hell, maybe I've suddenly become allergic to diesel fumes?

I promise I'll follow up with more info on my situation as I get it. Thanks in advance.

If the DPF is catalytic, that may cause higher NO2 emissions

 

[mikester]

Stop running the tractor in the barn with the doors closed

and don't drink battery acid it's also bad for you....

 

[workinonit]

If it didn't have DPF the NOx emissions would likely be much higher but yes, diesel exhaust is loaded with NOx even with DPF. I'm curious why you are smelling exhaust fumes while running the tractor? Manufacturers go out of their way trying to get the exhaust away from the operator. Sounds to me like your mission instead of going down the NOx rad might be to do something to get your face out of the exhaust path. I've been running tractors for 60 years and I don't think I have ever had one that blew exhaust in my face or made me sick. I did have a track loader that almost killed me doing it.

BTW, if you get a detector it needs to be a NOx detector that tests for all the NO compounds. NO and NO3 is likely more toxic than NO2. But save your money because they are all there.

 

[Windblown]

Stop running the tractor in the barn with the doors closed

and don't drink battery acid it's also bad for you....

Noted. I should have known racking up hours sitting in the barn was a bad idea. LOL. Battery acid? Is that code for moonshine?

 

[Windblown]

If it didn't have DPF the NOx emissions would likely be much higher but yes, diesel exhaust is loaded with NOx even with DPF. I'm curious why you are smelling exhaust fumes while running the tractor? Manufacturers go out of their way trying to get the exhaust away from the operator. Sounds to me like your mission instead of going down the NOx rad might be to do something to get your face out of the exhaust path. I've been running tractors for 60 years and I don't think I have ever had one that blew exhaust in my face or made me sick. I did have a track loader that almost killed me doing it.

BTW, if you get a detector it needs to be a NOx detector that tests for all the NO compounds. NO and NO3 is likely more toxic than NO2. But save your money because they are all there.

I have heard either may be possible from multiple sources as far as total NOX output. Apparently if the engine is designed to normally run at lower exhaust temps then the extra NOX produced in the process of burning off the built up particulates in the DPF filter during regen is still less overall than would be produced without it. However it sounds like exhaust gasses are often intentionally kept high on tractors to reduce particle build up in order to reduce the number of times a regen is required. Mine has never yet lit the regen light indicating it needed to enter a regen automatically because of a detected pressure differential across the DPF filter. It does produce a bit of vary noticeable smell for a minute occasionally when at high RPM under load after a period of time doing lower rpm back and forth loader work which I assume is the exhaust gas reaching a high enough temp to burn some of the particulate matter out of the DPF without regen. Other times the smell is much less noticeable. After the trip to the doc I did fire it up (outside...) and after it warmed up I started a regen cycle manually and let it do it's thing while I was inside and then came back out and shut it down on the chance that it clears it out.

As for why I'm smelling it so much on this tractor versus the ones I've owned before? I dont know for sure. A couple old ones had the old fashioned stove pipe exhaust which tends to get the exhaust out over ones head. The last tractor before this one discharged the exhaust low up by the front left side of the tractor at I believe a downward angle but I'm not positive as I never had an issue with the exhaust and didn't think much about it. This one also discharges the exhaust low up by the front left side of the tractor but the tip bends to shoot the exhaust out to the side a bit.

Still waiting for no blood to show up in my phlegm in the morning after I get up before I get back on the seat to see what happens.

 

[rontaki]

Stop running the tractor in the barn with the doors closed

and don't drink battery acid it's also bad for you....

If I leave the EV runnig with the garage door closed, it gives me a headache

 

[TMGT]

NOx is produced in the combustion chamber, not so much the exhaust, the EGR is there to reduce the NOx by reducing combustion chamber temps via introducing the spent exhaust into the intake.

 

[5030]

Quit sucking on the exhaust pipe... One, makes you ill and 2, will burn your lips...

 

[Snobdds]

LOL...DPF deals with particulate matter, sequestering it and then burning it off.

The SCR is what injects UREA and counteracts the high Nox buy chemically adding an extra nitrogen atom, changing it from introitus oxide to nitrous dioxide. .

If your tractor does not have SCR, you have nothing to deal with Nox.

 

[Snobdds]

NOx is produced in the combustion chamber, not so much the exhaust, the EGR is there to reduce the NOx by reducing combustion chamber temps via introducing the spent exhaust into the intake.

It helps, but the EGR does not operate at all times during operation.

The SCR is what operates all the time during operation.

 

[RBsingl]

Does your tractor also use DEF? Most Tier IV compliant will and these use a SCR (selective catalytic reduction) system that injects DEF (diesel exhaust fluid which is a specific concentration of ammonia). In the SCR, the DEF reacts with the exhaust converting the various NOX products. There is a definite smell to the exhaust from a DEF equipped system and if there is a problem with it, then it can put excessive ammonia into the catalyst resulting in significant ammonia gas in the exhaust which is an extreme irritant.

If not for the DEF/SCR system, diesel fuel efficiency would be even lower with Tier IV engines because it allows higher combustion temperature/pressure which is what creates NOX and then cleans it up via the catalytic reaction. Think of it as offsetting some of the power/efficiency loss that the DPF creates as they work together to meet Tier IV.

Rodger

 

[5030]

Way too complex for me. I have none of those issues and I'd never burn my lips on a hot exhaust pipe either.

I do know one thing for certain and that is an over dosing system stinks bad. Smells sort of like hot cat pee..

 

[5030]

Does your tractor also use DEF? Most Tier IV compliant will and these use a SCR (selective catalytic reduction) system that injects DEF (diesel exhaust fluid which is a specific concentration of ammonia). In the SCR, the DEF reacts with the exhaust converting the various NOX products. There is a definite smell to the exhaust from a DEF equipped system and if there is a problem with it, then it can put excessive ammonia into the catalyst resulting in significant ammonia gas in the exhaust which is an extreme irritant.

If not for the DEF/SCR system, diesel fuel efficiency would be even lower with Tier IV engines because it allows higher combustion temperature/pressure which is what creates NOX and then cleans it up via the catalytic reaction. Think of it as offsetting some of the power/efficiency loss that the DPF creates as they work together to meet Tier IV.

Rodger

Actually DEF is nothing but Urea in solution and deionized water. Makes great fertilizer for hay. I buy out of date DEF and fertilize my hayfields with it. Much ceaper than using granulated urea or 28% liquid.

 

[RBsingl]

Actually DEF is nothing but Urea in solution and deionized water. Makes great fertilizer for hay. I buy out of date DEF and fertilize my hayfields with it. Much ceaper than using granulated urea or 28% liquid.

Great way to use an otherwise "spoiled" product!!!

Rodger

 

[5030]

Great way to use an otherwise "spoiled" product!!!

Rodger

Absolutely it is and I like buying 'out of date' or frozen and thawed DEF in 350 gallon totes. Just picked up 700 gallons in 2 IBC's for 400 bucks from a truck dealership. Not sure why it has an expiration date as it don't go bad, even if frozen. Still stinks like cat pee...lol

I always return the totes as a courtesy.

They are heavy full, all my M9000 can do to lift one up.

 

[LouNY]

I have noticed a very rank and difficult fumes from diesels with def systems, both trucks and tractors when trying to work on them or hook up trailers or implements. Even in just 3 sided sheds. Much worse then the older so called "dirty" diesels.

 

[5030]

I have noticed a very rank and difficult fumes from diesels with def systems, both trucks and tractors when trying to work on them or hook up trailers or implements. Even in just 3 sided sheds. Much worse then the older so called "dirty" diesels.

Lou.. A DEF system that is over dosing urea will melt your eyeballs in a minute. Nothing stinks worse. I'll take my dirty diesels anytime compared to a clean diesel spewing urea fumes.

 

[5030]

The issue with DEF injection systems is just that, metering the injection rate properly and doing it when it's cold out or hot out. Prior to retirement, the dealership I worked at had a steady diet of failed DEF systems and they are not fixable, just replacable. Stuff stinks.

 

[RBsingl]

Absolutely it is and I like buying 'out of date' or frozen and thawed DEF in 350 gallon totes. Just picked up 700 gallons in 2 IBC's for 400 bucks from a truck dealership. Not sure why it has an expiration date as it don't go bad, even if frozen. Still stinks like cat pee...lol

I always return the totes as a courtesy.

They are heavy full, all my M9000 can do to lift one up.

Fortunately I don't need that quantity of DEF for my pickup so I either add at a station or buy Kleen DEF at Farm and Fleet in the 2.5 gallon containers when they are on sale.

Freezing won't hurt it but long storage in hot temperature (including sitting in the tank of a pickup that is only driven a few hundred miles a year) will "age" it. DEF systems are very finicky and the dosing rate is coarsely controlled by the fueling rate and fine tuned by the downstream "sniffer" but there is only a small amount of latitude in fine tuning (probably thanks to the EPA) so if the NOX isn't reduced sufficiently at maximum positive bias it declares an error. And faults with the DEF system under EPA only allow extremely short term operation before the engine output is reduced to the point that it will barely pull itself onto a trailer.

I remember when I ordered my 2018 GMC 2500HD, I always use GM's fleet order guides which have much more detail than what the dealer provides and I use it for configuring the vehicle. The truck chassis ordered for ambulance or fire service still has full emissions but at the time a DEF fault caused the vehicle with emergency use certification to go into limp mode at 50,000 miles following a DEF/SCR system fault; I could live with that limitation if only that option was available on regular consumer orders

Rodger