Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?

[Blue Mule]

In 2017 my parents and I split a 10 acre tract. They built a bandominium on one end, my wife and I built a "real house" on the other.

If I could do it over again, I would put my foot down and demand that the wife and I do a barndominium also. Here’s why:

- Much stronger structure. With 6x6 main posts secured into the ground all the way around, and tied together, and then covered in steel sheeting my parents have a MUCH stronger structure to resist severe thunderstorms compared to our 2x4 frame sitting on a foundation and covered in vinyl siding.
- Much cheaper to build. They have about 50% less money invested in their build, and the same square footage.
- More customizable. With a “pole barn” like they have, you can design and build it any way you want. It’s easy to make rooms larger, add doors, add windows, etc. And it’s FAR easier to add new additions onto the structure later.

The only drawback I’ve found is that the metal exterior on walls and roof pretty much kills any cellular signal inside the house, so they needed to install a repeater system that pipes the cell signal inside.

 

[ETD66SS]

In 2017 my parents and I split a 10 acre tract. They built a bandominium on one end, my wife and I built a "real house" on the other.

If I could do it over again, I would put my foot down and demand that the wife and I do a barndominium also. Here’s why:

- Much stronger structure. With 6x6 main posts secured into the ground all the way around, and tied together, and then covered in steel sheeting my parents have a MUCH stronger structure to resist severe thunderstorms.
- Much cheaper to build. They have about 50% money invested in their build, and the same square footage.
- More customizable. With a “pole barn” like they have, you can design and build it any way you want. It’s easy to make rooms larger, add doors, add windows, etc. And it’s FAR easier to add new additions onto the structure later.

The only drawback I’ve found is that the metal exterior on walls and roof pretty much kills any cellular signal inside the house, so they needed to install a repeater system that pipes the cell signal inside.

That's interesting. I have been using my cellphone in my building no problem so far. My structure has 8x8 posts and will have 7-1/4" of insulation on the exterior walls. So I'm hoping even with my less efficient radiant sub-floor solution, I'll still be better off than most traditional forms of heating. (Most homes here are forced hot air).

I also have radiant in the concrete floor below the second story, I expect to keep the garage & workshop at around 50-55F, which will help with heating the living space above.

 

[LouNY]

I have seen several floor options for use with the PEX tubing being on the top of the sub floor.
One is Warmboard and also Ecowaarm and there are others which keep the tubing on the top of the sub floor.

 

[ETD66SS]

I have seen several floor options for use with the PEX tubing being on the top of the sub floor.
One is Warmboard and also Ecowaarm and there are others which keep the tubing on the top of the sub floor.

My initial design had warmboard, until I discovered it would cost about $56k just for the warmboard plywood itself...

 

[EddieWalker]

I've never seen this type of installation for radiant heating before. Where I live, we focus on cooling, so there is a lot that I've never seen before with heating!!!!

How do you keep the heat from the PEX lines from going away into the air around it? Do you put something over it once it's installed?

 

[ETD66SS]

I've never seen this type of installation for radiant heating before. Where I live, we focus on cooling, so there is a lot that I've never seen before with heating!!!!

How do you keep the heat from the PEX lines from going away into the air around it? Do you put something over it once it's installed?

After the tubing and plates are all installed, I will be stapling "foil bubble wrap" to the bottoms of the top chords of the open web trusses, creating a 1.5" air gap. So the subfloor plywood is heated both by conduction and convection. Still not as efficient as tubing embeded in concrete but better than hot forced air into rooms via a furnace, blower & ductwork etc.

 

[EddieWalker]

Does the foil bubble wrap dry out and crack over time? I've seen that in pole barns, but I'm not sure of the brand or if there are better types of it out there.

Since I have no experience with this, I'm probably way off here, but wouldn't foam work better? Cut it to fit between the joists and cover all of the PEX?

 

[ETD66SS]

Does the foil bubble wrap dry out and crack over time? I've seen that in pole barns, but I'm not sure of the brand or if there are better types of it out there.

Since I have no experience with this, I'm probably way off here, but wouldn't foam work better? Cut it to fit between the joists and cover all of the PEX?

The water heats the pex tubing -> the pex tubing conducts heat to both the sub-floor and aluminum plates -> the warmed aluminum plates and the plywood sub-floor radiate infrared light downward away from their surfaces -> the foil bubble wrap reflects that infrared light back up towards the sub-floor and plates adding additional energy. The infrared light will bounce back and forth between the plates and the foil, but some of that energy gets absorbed by the plywood subfloor, some of it diassapates into other parts of the structure like the open web trusses and is lost via conduction out to the OSB sheathing and then the steel siding which is exposed to the outer elements.

The foil bubble insulation R value is pitiful, only like R2, but, the foil radiating the infrared light back up is the important part.

Underneath the foil bubble wrap will be fiberglass insulation to keep heat in the shop & garage produced by the pex in the concrete floors. Some of that heat will of course migrate up and heat the rooms above.

I would not be using this type of heat if I didn't have pex imbeded into the concrete in the shop/workshop below the second level living space.

 

[leonz]

As I live in New York as you do, I would advise you to build the A-frame
as you could heat the place with a coal stoker boiler using top fed
steam heat very economically with cast iron panel radiators or used
cast iron radiators from an architectural salvage company.

I do not remember the name of the company in Auburn, NY that has
salvaged radiators for sale.

I would contact Central New York Coverit for a long term hoop shed with
wooden timber supports for a shop that you could heat with steam using
a steam to hot air garage heater very easily and economically.

 

[EddieWalker]

The water heats the pex tubing -> the pex tubing conducts heat to both the sub-floor and aluminum plates -> the warmed aluminum plates and the plywood sub-floor radiate infrared light downward away from their surfaces -> the foil bubble wrap reflects that infrared light back up towards the sub-floor and plates adding additional energy. The infrared light will bounce back and forth between the plates and the foil, but some of that energy gets absorbed by the plywood subfloor, some of it diassapates into other parts of the structure like the open web trusses and is lost via conduction out to the OSB sheathing and then the steel siding which is exposed to the outer elements.

The foil bubble insulation R value is pitiful, only like R2, but, the foil radiating the infrared light back up is the important part.

Underneath the foil bubble wrap will be fiberglass insulation to keep heat in the shop & garage produced by the pex in the concrete floors. Some of that heat will of course migrate up and heat the rooms above.

I would not be using this type of heat if I didn't have pex imbeded into the concrete in the shop/workshop below the second level living space.

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Your understanding of how it works is a lot better than mine.

I've read a little on reflecting light for heat, but I honestly don't believe any of it. I'm very basic and simple thinking. Sometimes that works for me, sometimes it ends up costing more, taking longer and nothing is any better.

My brain is telling me that I would want to stop every bit of heat leaving the PEX that's going downwards, away from the floor. To me, it looks more like you have a radiator type design that will cool the PEX with air all around it instead of a heater that will focus the heat where you want it.