Price for fence installation

[Torvy]

Also, neighbors had a smaller run
Theirs was higher per foot...cost per foot is generally higher on shorter runs.

There's essentially a fixed cost to pay them to come out...variable cost of materials and time/labor. Bigger jobs spread the fixed portion across more feet.

 

[MMC]

Thanks for your thoughtful response. Great information. I am very happy with the fence install (see my previous response) but the labor charge I thought was exorbitant. I have just picked up a Danuser Post driver and I’m going to finish it up myself.

Just now saw your response - was out yesterday clipping pastures.

OK, my gut reaction is that is high. I thought this might have been a fence company bringing their equipment and workers. To be fair, a good company has to add overhead and profit to basic labor rates to stay in business. Think about liability insurance, workman's comp, social security, cost of equipment, interest, etc., etc.

But it doesn't sound like that's the situation here. All the equipment, right down to that nice staple gun was yours to begin with. Are we just talking about two private individuals here who can put up a farm fence? If so, all you're trying to estimate is a straight labor bill as a starting point. So...simply put, how many manhours did these guys take to put up your fence? To get into the ballpark, divide that into the labor bill and see what you paid in straight wages.

If I understand your project (not easy long distance), it shouldn't take long to put up 1000 feet of conventional woven wire unless there are problems with rock or terrain.

And I am the first to offer that people who do good work in fencing deserve a good profit. It takes brains, experience, and a strong back. That's hard to find. I always pay a 20% bonus at the end of tough jobs like this to those who are working with me. But it's your money and your decision.

If you can find a neighboring farmer and feel comfortable asking a few questions, that would be of immense benefit. They probably know what a fair installation rate for your land is. I believe they will raise their eyebrows as to the labor price you were charged.

A final thought - a post driver is great, but you cannot easily operate it by yourself. You'll need a ground man to line you up and position the post and drop the ram. Hard job if you intend to get off and on the tractor each time... That's a fine post driver you bought. If new, I would ask the dealer to come to your place and demonstrate how to use it effectively. If he's a good guy, he'll do it.

Also not quite sure why an H-brace every 100 feet. (Most people don't put in enough, though). Maybe that was because of terrain transitions/dips? I also normally put a double H-brace at "ends" and use 8" posts. And at that end, you do need to securely fasten the wire to the post. And naturally Number 9 brace wire running diagonally top to bottom, against the direction of "pull." Still, even with 5" posts, these guys set 140-150 posts by hand. Could you have use two metal t-posts for each wood line post? Could save on material cost and labor.

I admire you for taking this on, but suggest you get some knowledgeable folks to get you started. Either the County Extension Agent or farmers around you. And be careful with that driver...if it hits something underneath the ground, bad things can happen. Read the manual in depth, but it sounds like you are the kind of person that will do that.

Best of Luck.

 

[Torvy]

Good point on neighbors. Sometimes if neighbors need some work done, you can all save a bit by hiring the same crew.

 

[ning]

Thanks. Wood posts, 5 inch line posts spaced every 8‘. 6“ corner posts. All posts 0.60 cca. H Braces every hundred feet. Red brand sheep and goat, fencing, 48 inches with monarch knot. Rolling land. Sandy loam with some rocks. Looking for price per foot. I’m asking because I was just charged $20 a foot for labor alone. I supplied all the materials as well as the tractor with post auger and cordless staple gun. Total bill was $19,000 for 1100 feet. Again, that is just the labor. Needless to say, I was a little surprised

This quote doesn't surprise me a bit. A few years back, here in pretty-high-cost-of-living NorCal, I got a couple quotes for replacing a not dissimilar fence that was ~50 years old and mostly falling down and what I was told was about the same - at the time I was looking for just replacing 500', and got a few different qualities of build (from replacing posts and re-stretching the rusted finish but overall decent old woven fence to complete replacement) with bids ranging from $5-9k.

I looked at the materials cost and decided to DImYself; 5' red brand no-climb horse fence + 3 lines of barbless on top, 10' 5-6" cca posts with 3-4 10' t-posts between them, 2 hot wires on the outside (I'm keeping stuff out more than keeping stuff in - the hot wire is for climbing coyotes & bobcat while the height is mostly for deer).

I ended up redoing/adding five times the fence and spent perhaps $3k in materials. Took me a couple years... obviously not non-stop, but still lots of work and much of it in the hot sun. In the process though I did a lot more land clearing than would've been done in the original bid, plus even just with the original small bit of fence replacement I changed the fence layout and made better use of the land in the process - the old fence was from before a larger parcel had been split up and was an internal cross-fence at the time while now it's close to a property boundary and while I didn't put it right on the boundary (because the boundary is the middle of a canal!) I did put it a lot closer to it and reclaimed a nice chunk of space for our use.

So this isn't to say DIY... but it's to say depending on your location and labor costs, I'm not surprised. People around here charge $30-35/hr for weed whacking your grass yard, I #^&(* you not. For some reason, we DIY just about everything... but in the process, I also know I'm getting the best work done possible without my trees and land getting massacred (unless I do it intentionally).

 

[Saucymynx]

Just now saw your response - was out yesterday clipping pastures.

OK, my gut reaction is that is high. I thought this might have been a fence company bringing their equipment and workers. To be fair, a good company has to add overhead and profit to basic labor rates to stay in business. Think about liability insurance, workman's comp, social security, cost of equipment, interest, etc., etc.

But it doesn't sound like that's the situation here. All the equipment, right down to that nice staple gun was yours to begin with. Are we just talking about two private individuals here who can put up a farm fence? If so, all you're trying to estimate is a straight labor bill as a starting point. So...simply put, how many manhours did these guys take to put up your fence? To get into the ballpark, divide that into the labor bill and see what you paid in straight wages.

If I understand your project (not easy long distance), it shouldn't take long to put up 1000 feet of conventional woven wire unless there are problems with rock or terrain.

And I am the first to offer that people who do good work in fencing deserve a good profit. It takes brains, experience, and a strong back. That's hard to find. I always pay a 20% bonus at the end of tough jobs like this to those who are working with me. But it's your money and your decision.

If you can find a neighboring farmer and feel comfortable asking a few questions, that would be of immense benefit. They probably know what a fair installation rate for your land is. I believe they will raise their eyebrows as to the labor price you were charged.

A final thought - a post driver is great, but you cannot easily operate it by yourself. You'll need a ground man to line you up and position the post and drop the ram. Hard job if you intend to get off and on the tractor each time... That's a fine post driver you bought. If new, I would ask the dealer to come to your place and demonstrate how to use it effectively. If he's a good guy, he'll do it.

Also not quite sure why an H-brace every 100 feet. (Most people don't put in enough, though). Maybe that was because of terrain transitions/dips? I also normally put a double H-brace at "ends" and use 8" posts. And at that end, you do need to securely fasten the wire to the post. And naturally Number 9 brace wire running diagonally top to bottom, against the direction of "pull." Still, even with 5" posts, these guys set 140-150 posts by hand. Could you have use two metal t-posts for each wood line post? Could save on material cost and labor.

I admire you for taking this on, but suggest you get some knowledgeable folks to get you started. Either the County Extension Agent or farmers around you. And be careful with that driver...if it hits something underneath the ground, bad things can happen. Read the manual in depth, but it sounds like you are the kind of person that will do that.

Best of Luck.

Thanks - i appreciate your reply. I am well down the road with this project. Same two guys have put in 1600 feet over the last two yrs and it is perfect. I believe in over building. Straight as an arrow and very stout. The property was fence 10 yrs ago with t posts, every 20 feet in some areas and untreated cedar posts for gates and corners. Many of those have rotted off already, and then someplace the weight of the snow has dragged the t posts several feet into the ground. I am absolutely not balking at the finished product, but I am questioning the high labor cost. It is a local guy and his dad who is in his late 60s. The son is the primary worker – I will call him the foreman. I pay him $50 an hour, but he also charges me $50 an hour for his dad, that’s where I’m having problems. The sun does tons of work for me around my place and I’m super happy with it and I don’t want to jeopardize our relationship but honestly, I can’t afford those rates anymore and don’t feel that I’m getting $50 an hour worth of work out of the assistant. All of this is just to check my gut feelings against what other folks are paying. Unfortunately, I’m gonna go from having excellent workers that I can no longer afford to doing all the work myself. It does look like that post driver is a one person job. We’ll see. Going to start on some far out-of-the-way fence so if I get them in wonky, I won’t see them. I should’ve had this conversation with the workers last year but on the smaller run it wasn’t nearly as big Bill as it was with the latest 1100 feet.

 

[MMC]

Thanks - i appreciate your reply. I am well down the road with this project. Same two guys have put in 1600 feet over the last two yrs and it is perfect. I believe in over building. Straight as an arrow and very stout. The property was fence 10 yrs ago with t posts, every 20 feet in some areas and untreated cedar posts for gates and corners. Many of those have rotted off already, and then someplace the weight of the snow has dragged the t posts several feet into the ground. I am absolutely not balking at the finished product, but I am questioning the high labor cost. It is a local guy and his dad who is in his late 60s. The son is the primary worker – I will call him the foreman. I pay him $50 an hour, but he also charges me $50 an hour for his dad, that’s where I’m having problems. The sun does tons of work for me around my place and I’m super happy with it and I don’t want to jeopardize our relationship but honestly, I can’t afford those rates anymore and don’t feel that I’m getting $50 an hour worth of work out of the assistant. All of this is just to check my gut feelings against what other folks are paying. Unfortunately, I’m gonna go from having excellent workers that I can no longer afford to doing all the work myself. It does look like that post driver is a one person job. We’ll see. Going to start on some far out-of-the-way fence so if I get them in wonky, I won’t see them. I should’ve had this conversation with the workers last year but on the smaller run it wasn’t nearly as big Bill as it was with the latest 1100 feet.

That's an uncomfortable situation...but you already know that. However, it appears you have lost confidence in these two guys no matter what. Going forward with them will be difficult because you won't trust them now and that will show.

You have stated your concerns to all of us; perhaps it's time to be candid with the son. I'll guess the son is pocketing part of his dad's pay as well. But if they could be making this kind of money working for others, they'd be doing it already. And unless you're in downtown Palm Springs, that seems a pretty high labor rate for this kind of work, especially since they are bringing no equipment to the job. Just my opinion.

I probably would tell the son my financial situation is such that I cannot pay this much (and certainly not for a second tier worker like his dad). So, what would be a fair wage for the son? Your call - I don't live where you do, so the answer will vary accordingly. Just roll that number out to the son and see if he can make a living with it. If not, you and he will have to part ways which might be good for both parties.

And your worst fear might happen - he leaves. But if you found him, you can find others if you pay a fair wage. How about a local ag college - many farm boys pick up a little money for their education that way. Or, a bit of an ad hoc partnership with a local farmer to supply labor and certain equipment for your more labor intensive projects during "off season" times. The local farm store (a real one, not the chains), your vet, local farmers, your County Extension Agent are places to start looking and talking.

But, perhaps others will chime in here, while I admire your attitude in using your driver, it will be a very hard job by yourself. I believe you need at least one person to help you. And remember, you'll still have to position and stretch your fence after the posts and braces are set. Think that over.

But, perhaps your current employee will take a reasonable wage to be your ground man. Who knows? I have run fence with myself and one other person in my youth - it's certainly doable.

Last thought. Yes, I sometimes over build like you like to do. But maybe there's a middle ground. No, a t-post fence with no support is not a good idea, nor are rough cedar posts. Your treated posts are the way to go. But many competent fences are built with t-posts, line posts, good braces, etc. Again, suggest you go online or to your local Extension Office and get fence building plans and options.

By the way, t-posts come in many lengths - you don't have to accept the common 6 or 6 1/2' steel posts. You may have to special order, but a 7 foot to 10 foot long steel post is pretty darn strong. And your driver will probably have an attachment for driving t-posts as well.

Welcome to farming and best of luck.

 

[ning]

My experience in fencing has been that digging the post holes was the toughest part; I used a three point auger with very mixed results as they just don't seem to work too well in clay unless the time is right. Running the fence wire was easy (hung the bundle from the tractor bucket with something it could spin on and drove); snugging it was easy; tying it off on end posts was time consuming and definitely works the fingers & hands hard but overall not difficult, and you only have to do it at bends for the most part.

With you having a post driver it seems to take out the most labor-intensive portion; if I had one of those I'd be hard pressed to pay to have the rest done unless I was under serious time constraints -- the rest of it isn't easy, but it's definitely not the hardest job on the land.

 

[Saucymynx]

That's an uncomfortable situation...but you already know that. However, it appears you have lost confidence in these two guys no matter what. Going forward with them will be difficult because you won't trust them now and that will show.

You have stated your concerns to all of us; perhaps it's time to be candid with the son. I'll guess the son is pocketing part of his dad's pay as well. But if they could be making this kind of money working for others, they'd be doing it already. And unless you're in downtown Palm Springs, that seems a pretty high labor rate for this kind of work, especially since they are bringing no equipment to the job. Just my opinion.

I probably would tell the son my financial situation is such that I cannot pay this much (and certainly not for a second tier worker like his dad). So, what would be a fair wage for the son? Your call - I don't live where you do, so the answer will vary accordingly. Just roll that number out to the son and see if he can make a living with it. If not, you and he will have to part ways which might be good for both parties.

And your worst fear might happen - he leaves. But if you found him, you can find others if you pay a fair wage. How about a local ag college - many farm boys pick up a little money for their education that way. Or, a bit of an ad hoc partnership with a local farmer to supply labor and certain equipment for your more labor intensive projects during "off season" times. The local farm store (a real one, not the chains), your vet, local farmers, your County Extension Agent are places to start looking and talking.

But, perhaps others will chime in here, while I admire your attitude in using your driver, it will be a very hard job by yourself. I believe you need at least one person to help you. And remember, you'll still have to position and stretch your fence after the posts and braces are set. Think that over.

But, perhaps your current employee will take a reasonable wage to be your ground man. Who knows? I have run fence with myself and one other person in my youth - it's certainly doable.

Last thought. Yes, I sometimes over build like you like to do. But maybe there's a middle ground. No, a t-post fence with no support is not a good idea, nor are rough cedar posts. Your treated posts are the way to go. But many competent fences are built with t-posts, line posts, good braces, etc. Again, suggest you go online or to your local Extension Office and get fence building plans and options.

By the way, t-posts come in many lengths - you don't have to accept the common 6 or 6 1/2' steel posts. You may have to special order, but a 7 foot to 10 foot long steel post is pretty darn strong. And your driver will probably have an attachment for driving t-posts as well.

Welcome to farming and best of luck.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write such a thoughtful response. This farming stuff is tough when you do it solo. I think the fundamental problem is while my guy is an excellent worker – hard worker, all around nice guy and a stickler for detail, he is a lousy businessman, the bill I just got was for work that finished up last September. I kept calling him and asking him to get me his numbers together, but he never got around to it. So I just don’t think really thought through. Unfortunately, I live in a very rural area and , good help is very hard to find. I have gone through four or five young guys and despite paying them 15 to 20 bucks an hour – these are high school kids – they work a bit and then never show up again times have certainly changed. I do have a good friend who is a full-time farmer and has helped me a lot. In fact, he was over tonight and is excited to help me set posts. I’m a bit leery loaning equipment out but with him he’ll use my post driver and my grain drill and whatever else he needs so I have options. It will just take longer. I am sold on all wood posts because I don’t ever plan on doing this fence again And I just like the way it looks. I do use on my pastor dividers but for the perimeter fence, the wood post and woven wire just work. Again, I really appreciate your thoughtful reply and your perspectives are greatly appreciated.

 

[Saucymynx]

My experience in fencing has been that digging the post holes was the toughest part; I used a three point auger with very mixed results as they just don't seem to work too well in clay unless the time is right. Running the fence wire was easy (hung the bundle from the tractor bucket with something it could spin on and drove); snugging it was easy; tying it off on end posts was time consuming and definitely works the fingers & hands hard but overall not difficult, and you only have to do it at bends for the most part.

With you having a post driver it seems to take out the most labor-intensive portion; if I had one of those I'd be hard pressed to pay to have the rest done unless I was under serious time constraints -- the rest of it isn't easy, but it's definitely not the hardest job on the land.

I’m actually looking forward to seeing how well the driver works. Like you, I see the post as the hardest part. I have one of those tractor supply fence enrollers that goes on the three-point so that will make the hanging in the fence easier. And all my runs this year will be straight, so I will see how it goes .

 

[Saucymynx]

This quote doesn't surprise me a bit. A few years back, here in pretty-high-cost-of-living NorCal, I got a couple quotes for replacing a not dissimilar fence that was ~50 years old and mostly falling down and what I was told was about the same - at the time I was looking for just replacing 500', and got a few different qualities of build (from replacing posts and re-stretching the rusted finish but overall decent old woven fence to complete replacement) with bids ranging from $5-9k.

I looked at the materials cost and decided to DImYself; 5' red brand no-climb horse fence + 3 lines of barbless on top, 10' 5-6" cca posts with 3-4 10' t-posts between them, 2 hot wires on the outside (I'm keeping stuff out more than keeping stuff in - the hot wire is for climbing coyotes & bobcat while the height is mostly for deer).

I ended up redoing/adding five times the fence and spent perhaps $3k in materials. Took me a couple years... obviously not non-stop, but still lots of work and much of it in the hot sun. In the process though I did a lot more land clearing than would've been done in the original bid, plus even just with the original small bit of fence replacement I changed the fence layout and made better use of the land in the process - the old fence was from before a larger parcel had been split up and was an internal cross-fence at the time while now it's close to a property boundary and while I didn't put it right on the boundary (because the boundary is the middle of a canal!) I did put it a lot closer to it and reclaimed a nice chunk of space for our use.

So this isn't to say DIY... but it's to say depending on your location and labor costs, I'm not surprised. People around here charge $30-35/hr for weed whacking your grass yard, I #^&(* you not. For some reason, we DIY just about everything... but in the process, I also know I'm getting the best work done possible without my trees and land getting massacred (unless I do it intentionally).

I am of the mindset that I would prefer to do things myself as well. Better job, done exactly the way you want and not depending on someone else’s schedule. Of course, time is a limiting factor and you can only do so much. We’ll see how it goes, but I think I’m gonna try and do, it myself this year. I do think a lot of people are pricing them out of the market with what they ask for semi skilled or non-skilled labor. $35 an hour to weed whack is crazy.