40x60 pole barn advice

   / 40x60 pole barn advice #11  
40x96 hits the sweet spot for me…
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   / 40x60 pole barn advice #13  
Yes… Castro Valley on 5 acres with city water and fire hydrant.

it’s the one that got away in 2012… the property that checked all the the boxes and I made full price non contingent offer only subject to survey but the seller had accepted a 50k less offer earlier that day… for 6 weeks I was in back up position.

I keep in touch with the buyer but he says never going to leave… make a deal with my widow.
 
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   / 40x60 pole barn advice #14  
Power-it was cheaper to have an additional service installed versus tapping off existing home service.
This can work both ways. There is a transformer in my yard, halfway between my house and shop. Naturally, I thought installing a new service in the shop tapped off the transformer would be the logical solution. However, the power company said if I did that, the new service would have to be classified as a "commercial service" and the base rate would have been more expensive than a residential service.

It was cheaper in the long run for me to run another set of laterals from the transformer to the house up to a disconnect switch, then back out to the shop and keep it as one "residential" service with a sub panel in the shop. Instead of 50 feet of underground service conductors, it wound up being 140 feet, but was still cheaper in the long run.

Bigger is better, I would go 50 x 80 at least. Mine works out to about 40 x 72 and is already tight.

Sizing for septic systems is pretty specific regarding the number of fixtures/bathrooms so you would you would need to know exactly how the original system was designed (and be able to prove it) to show that it could accept an additional load.

Don't be deterred by code people balking at what they perceive as a "dwelling unit" in the building. They are just trying to CTA. The trick is to use language on the plans that they can approve (because, trust me, they want to approve it and get it out the door). If they have a problem with a room labelled a "bedroom" call it an office. If they don't like "kitchen" call it a bar. And so on...

On the other hand, if you really do want to put a dwelling unit in there, and it is not permitted by code, well, as a good citizen, you should follow the rules.
 
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   / 40x60 pole barn advice
  • Thread Starter
#15  
I see a lot of people online have had their interiors sheathed in metal panels. Is there a reason for that other than aesthetics? I'd prefer open access to studs in a shop for ease of running more electrical circuits in the future.
 
   / 40x60 pole barn advice #16  
Good point on understanding local rules about living spaces. It's rural Indiana zoned agricultural/residential so hopefully not a problem. Even if there's no living space I'll want sewer and water for a laundry tub so I'm not going back to the house all filthy. Where do you start to gather information on local requirements? The zoning commission? Some other county office? I don't want to count on a builder knowing the rules.
This is all handled by your local township (unless they defer to the county for permits and inspections).

Stop into the local township office and be friendly with everyone and ask to talk to the local building/zoning official, they can invite you in for a meeting to answer all your questions.

Thats the first thing I did when I bought my parcel of land, zoned residential-3, and was a bit dismayed to find I was not allowed to build a barn BEFORE having a primary dwelling (house) on site. The permits could be combined, and the barn could go first, but could not be separate process/permits. SO I had to work on my vehicles on gravel for a couple years before I could swing a pole barn. There were also many other restrictions and rules to follow that I was not aware of.

The other thing to do is find your local township website and download/read ALL of the zoning regulations. Specifically on buildings and land use, there will be a lot of information to absorb there.

In my case, at least 100' separation was required between well and septic field, didn't matter what was in between them (my house is, to shorten the plumbing in each direction).

Regarding interior finishing - you won't have "studs" with a pole barn unless you specifically frame in an entire wall in between each post, which kind of defeats the purpose of the pole barn and adds some significant cost. Many people do this anyway, but why not just stick-frame the whole building at that point.

Heat/AC - Yeah putting pex tubing in the floor when you pour the slab is cheap to add if you do the labor yourself of setting it up, and then you have by FAR the best heating method. You can just run an electric boiler or water heater if you want to keep it simple. I would personally not want a diesel-fueled heater in my shop requiring tanks, lines, exhaust, fire safety, etc. Propane is easier though.

If you keep the main floor at a reasonably comfortable temp all winter, then the upstairs can be run with a single heat-pump mini-split unit for both winter heat and summer A/C. Running A/C in the main shop is a tough call, its very nice, of course, but also very expensive. I don't have my heat and A/C done in my 30x36 pole barn yet, but I do plan to add a mini-split in the shop floor - not to hold the entire air space at 70°, but rather to blow cold air in at least one area for temporary relief as needed.
 
   / 40x60 pole barn advice #17  
For what it is worth from my experiences…
Build your building with Eaves.
 
   / 40x60 pole barn advice
  • Thread Starter
#18  
I'm reading the zoning regulations for our county (I can't find anything township specific) and since we're zoned agricultural it says:

Living quarters are not permitted within an accessory structure without a variance from the BZA. For purposes of this section, “living quarters” is defined as permanent or roughed-in provisions for sleeping, cooking, and sanitation. This definition also includes a camper or recreational vehicle being occupied inside of an accessory structure.

The phrase "sleeping, cooking, amd sanitation" is a bit vague since if there's electric then a stove can be hooked up and if there's a floor you can put a bed on it. The sanitation provision is more obvious, but does it forbid a sink in the shop? So I'll have to make an appointment with someone at the zoning office for clarification. I can try for a variance to allow a small apartment or I can give up on that idea and see if I'm allowed to hook up sewer and water since at the very least I want a wash tub in the shop.
 
   / 40x60 pole barn advice #19  
The phrase "sleeping, cooking, amd sanitation" is a bit vague since if there's electric then a stove can be hooked up and if there's a floor you can put a bed on it. The sanitation provision is more obvious, but does it forbid a sink in the shop? So I'll have to make an appointment with someone at the zoning office for clarification. I can try for a variance to allow a small apartment or I can give up on that idea and see if I'm allowed to hook up sewer and water since at the very least I want a wash tub in the shop.
See, that's what I mean. That is why, on the plan, you don't show a "bedroom". You call the room "office" then, you don't have "provisions for sleeping", just an office. For the non-kitchen, you leave the stove hookup off the plan and just run a 220 outlet later (if you want an electric stove) and just call the non-kitchen cabinets a "bar".

I know this sounds like subterfuge, but that is how the game is played. Or, if you actually DO want to have an apartment in there, then go to the BZA. Things are approved this way all the time - BZA or Building/Fire Code Board of Appeals.

The property right next door to me (also residential/agricultural zoning) had the opposite problem. They didn't have a primary residence on the property, but wanted to build a pole barn. Zoning Ordinance prohibits an "accessory" building (pole barn) on property without a primary residence.

They are trying to prevent people from building structures to run businesses out of in residential areas. So, to get the plans approved, they walled off a room (bedroom) and showed an area as a kitchen and bathroom. Presto, they have a dwelling unit in the building and plans were approved.

Now, guess what, nobody lives there and the owner is running a buisness out of the building, with the blessing of the City.
 
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   / 40x60 pole barn advice #20  
Be careful about absolutes when giving advice about which body has which power.

In the US, this varies considerably by state. Ultimately, all power is funneled from the people to the state and from there either to the national government or to local governments. Some states have 8 or 10 different levels of local control. Most have at least 3. Some of that power is direct from the state, in other cases counties can further divide their power to smaller subdivisions.
 

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