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It made me think of that character when you told me about the leaking seal story 😄 Same here. That's one of my biggest passions. I always try to pass along information to help other consumers whenever I can.

So what have you personally observed so far?

That's an interesting observation. I wonder why they designed it that way :unsure: If anybody has any ideas I would like to hear them. Another interesting piece of information that I never considered before.

Is the site not letting you change it in your profile settings?

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: That's awesome! :) 🙌

Fords are the best tractor there ever was. It's too bad they exited the tractor business. Glad to see people out there like you that want to keep em going.

It has certainly made finding a value buy much more difficult. However, it has served as one of the greatest learning opportunities of my life.

Ralph you better dress that doll up with a orange hat then instead of that green one 😂

Ralph why does your profile not list you owning the B2601?

I guess to each his own. For me the twin touch pedals come naturally intuitive, I don't have to think about it. But then that's why they make different designs.

Since you say that you prefer the treadle pedal I would like to take the opportunity to ask you why? I'm very curious to know that.

That tractor has really nice hydraulics. The HST is premium all the way around. However, I have to say that you are in the minority when it comes to preferring the treadle pedal. Most prefer the twin touch pedals. But then again the servo valves on that tractor are super great so it's not hard...

How many are they going to build this year?

And there's nothing wrong with that. As some have said here before, if you have that money in an investment making more then what you're losing or paying out in finance costs then it could make perfect sense to pay it. My only point is these dealers know full well that they are not giving the...

It gets even more interesting when you eventually figure out that everything above that 20% discount was pure finance profit for the dealer. When you take the cash discount the dealer is only making around a 3% profit. Why do you think they are calling it ZERO PERCENT?

That's incorrect. There is no stipulation that you must own a horse only that you must be a card carrying member of the NCH association.

Yeah and that's what many dealers are asking for them now, MSRP and above 🤑🤑🤑

It may be hard to believe but it's true. That's why I have encouraged members to shop around. Just because a lot of dealers will price gouge does not mean all of them will. We are in different markets so I don't know what dealers are selling tractors for out there. However, with Texas being the...

Is there a way to find out the stats on how many users own each brand of tractor?

😂

The cash discount that the dealer will offer you is not the ACH discount. As you stated, "On my MX it was $900 cash discount" Does that sound like 20% off?

That's because dealers do not want you knowing about it or using it. One thing you have to understand is dealers are as much or more in the finance business as they are in the tractor business.

Yep I was quoted $26,666.67 for the same tractor with no loader and an extended warranty. No way am I going to pay that for a no frills tractor when I can go and purchase a premium grade tractor of the same size from Kioti for around $5500 less.

😂

"You didn't answer my question??" "Again, you didn't answer my question? 😏 "

Richard in your own words I will quote you, "You didn't answer my question??" "Again, you didn't answer my question? 😏"

You're doing just fine. Those are great ideas. You will get a handle on it and maybe even teach some of us a thing or two.

That is changing now with Auction Time.

Imagine that. The dealer sells you a tractor with leaking seals and just so happens to have those exact seals in stock.

What caused you to decide to not go that route?

What is your insight on it?

How is the mower performing? How is it handling the elevation on the property?

Actually what I said was, "So now that I have made my position clear about this I would like to hear you answer your own question."

"There is a huge disparity in the "World" tractor market versus the "US" market. I've traveled enough to see that disparity first hand. But I'll restrict my thoughts to the US since it's my homeland."

You're list is mostly made up of tractors that are not U.S based. New Holland? That's made by LS in South Korea. Case also made by LS in South Korea. Kubota is based in Japan. Massey Ferguson is actually a rebranded Iseki tractor. The only tractor that is US based is Deere.

I don't understand why as they are being bought, sold and used in the US. Additionally, they are the focus of this discussion and thread.

This is what I didn't understand for so long when I was growing up. I used to think my dad was a cheapskate and all he wanted was something with a lower price or "cheaper". After he and I went into business together that's when I began to understand the concept of "better value" versus being...

Is there enough hydraulic flow on your tractor to operate a hydraulic driven blower instead of a PTO driven blower?

Thanks for the detailed feedback. You are welcome and encouraged to join my thread over here: Kioti Warranty Concerns I would be interested to hear your opinion/feedback in regards to the discussion that were having in light of your own personal experience with the brand.

Ok good response but you left Kioti/Daedong out. What's your opinion on Kioti/Daedong and how you view them in relation to the other manufacturers?

It means we have defective leadership.

Out of curiosity how do you guys prevent the front plow/blade/bucket from tearing up the asphalt and driveways?

This is not directed at the OP but you would think all this is common sense. However, in the words of Charlie Munger, "what is common sense is actually not that common."

"Statistics lie and liars use statistics". In the real estate world comps are our statistics.

And there in lies the problem. The Fed has succumbed to political pressures just like every other institution in this country has which has rendered the leadership incompetent to be the adults in the room that they are supposed to be.

You make a valid point and NO they shouldn't have engineering failures like that! The difference between the auto industry and the tractor industry is there are consumer protection laws in place to protect the consumer such as lemon laws that aren't there for the tractor industry. For example...

I agree that he would of had the strongest case if he had of approached the dealer first and tried to rectify the problem with them. If the dealer was not willing to make it right then that's when a phone call to the manufacturer would have made sense and he would of had logic and ammunition...

Richard your question was originally aimed at Vince but I chimed in to give my perspective on how Kioti is positioning itself as a manufacturer within the industry which was my answer to your question. However, to more directly answer your question I say it depends on who you ask. Is Kioti...

Why don't you do your own comparisons 🤷‍♂️

Just add food and energy in and you'll see the real numbers.

I do. Look at the HP numbers required for that blower. What I don't understand is why the poster didn't consider that before purchasing it.

And that is where I am of the opinion that they should not have had the engineering failures that they have had given the maturity of the brand and product lines. If they were a startup or new comer it would be suspected but given their lengthy history in the business and the North American...

I agree with this statement. Badmouthing happens when a sales person hasn't done their homework to understand how their product and brand is positioned in the market. A good sales person seeks to educate a person's understanding not to shape their opinion. Let the facts speak for themselves.

Lmao 😂 Omg there is a guy I know that is just like like that! It doesn't matter what you tell him that you have or has happened to you he will always have to one up you to make your _(life experience, product, windfall, hardship, opportunity, whatever...) seem pitiful in comparison to his...

Yeah good point! Who is the dealer if you don't mind me asking?

Kioti/Daedong is filling the gap created by the other brands in their product line up. For example, Kioti has positioned it's CK10SE series to fill the gap between Kubota's Stand L and Grand L series, Deere's 3E and 3R series and Agco/Massey Ferguson's 1800E and 1800M series. I will add in that...

Gathering the product data is the major challenge for every consumer researching this industry. It's very difficult to do as this industry does not work with any consumer advocate groups such as consumer reports or J.D Power & Associates. So what were all left with is mostly anecdotal material...

Thanks for the reply. Was this an isolated issue or widespread?

Yeah sorry I meant Daedong. That's interesting as I was not aware they were working with so many different OEMS. I knew about Bobcat and Badboy but not the others. Do you know if they have worked with the construction industry?

Now Midnite you messing me up over here. No need to go bragging to the community here about my gun slinging days in the wild wild west. I'm trying to keep a low profile these days ;)

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

This is a true statement. Both Kubota and Yanmar are the leading OEM engine manufacturers for the off road equipment industry. Far as I know Kioti does not sell their engines to other OEM manufacturers besides the relabeled tractors which is still manufactured by Kioti which I don't count.

There's no sources for the claims they're making in that article. I welcome any dealers to weigh into this conversation.

Please clarify this statement. I want to make sure I fully understand you.

Ok I am going to chime in here for a second. I'm not here to beat up Kubota but let's be honest, Kubota has had quite a few engineering disasters. And when they have had these disasters Kubota can't seem to get them fixed. Additionally, I have heard very similar reports that Kubota has tried to...

Mike, what year is your Kioti?

Jim do recall where you purchased that fuel for your tractor? Was it at a regular name brand fuel station or some mom and pop place? Yeah I read all that. That was really shocking as I have never heard of a dealer charging what amounts to a deductible for warranty work. That sounds illegal to me.

This is a new scheme I have not heard of before. I think it is something I should bring up and discuss with my dealer before purchase.

Same here LS. What I meant by that statement is things like the ease and convenience of having a close dealer, the dealer having a mobile service truck, the longevity of the dealer, the ease of making warranty claims, contacting the manufacturer etc.

Interesting, learn something new every day here.

That's what you have to do so good job! (y) There will always be that to but if you can't laugh at yourself every now and then then you're taking life a little too serious ;)

In other words, market sentiment. This is surprising but I will offer up my explanation. Kubota cooked themselves on the SVL-95's with a bad emissions system a few years ago much like they did with the B3350 but way worse. Now their reputation is tarnished in the construction market and they...

It's piling up because of the price gouging. My dad saw a commercial on TV a couple days ago for Kubota. You know if they're advertising in a market like this they're on the hunt for suckers.

My question is how would anyone know what the moisture content is?

Blue, as I said earlier you seem to already have a good handle on everything. Some members come on here and need a lot of hand holding, other members join and they are very self sufficient. You fall in the latter category.

Exactly which makes that wisdom not relevant in the current market conditions.

It is a big deal. That is someone that has no business being in business.

Scotty, I vote you to be the teacher of those classes 😄

I will also add in that anytime you are looking at contenders to the established brands/investments you have to understand they will always carry more risk. In the investment world we call that a risk premium. That's why they are priced a good bit below the established companies. You are getting...

To avoid the trap I fell into I think everyone shopping for a tractor should read this article: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/herdinstinct.asp

Return emails and calls. Act like you actually want to sell something instead of behaving like you don't need anyone's business. This is the number one reason buyers get disgusted with dealers and move on to other brands.

I too at one time was one of those members that was down on those brands and came against them "with no first hand knowledge". I was echoing concerns that I had heard other people say about them instead of performing my own self evaluation. I also think I read too much into the negative reviews...

Tim's a great guy and I am subscribed to his channel. I actually have a lot of respect for him and I don't think he is a paid shill. Yes he endorses products and maybe he gets a little kickback but he is offering a value to people that other You Tubers are not. Tim has never beat up on the other...

I think you're probably right.

So then why doesn't the industry offer one?

Doesn't mean there's demand for them.

I will chime in to give my perspective of what I feel is going on here. Finn like many of our members here get frustrated with the apparent disregard for some of the other brands that are bringing a lot of value to the industry. Most first time buyers are not as familiar with those brands and...

Why because of the width of the machine and tires?

Please explain. I'm all ears to learn.

Indy it sounds like you and I had identical tractor shopping journeys.

Well at least he doesn't have to worry about having enough lift capacity or PTO hp 😂

Beautiful property. I don't see how you guys live in those conditions up there in Minnesota. That has to be rough.

I have been retracing all the steps in my mind the last week that I took when I began my tractor shopping journey 3 years ago to the point I have gotten to now where I know I have found the tractor that is right for me. I have often been questioning why it took me so long to get here and what I...

Yet that is what every investor does. The investment community telling investors to not time markets is the biggest hypocrisy in existence.

Or we have a lot of property to mow and maintain like in my case.

"Well established" dealers come with a price tag to.

Blue this video came out yesterday and I meant to post it but forgot so here it is:

Red, what you're saying is 100% logical here and there is nothing that you have said that I would disagree with. In fact, I took the exact same methodical approach as you to shopping for a tractor BUT here is where logic and reality do not always coincide. John Deere for example has the best...

Who would you be referring to if you don't mind me asking?

Dodge man I demoed one the other day and I was impressed! I detailed out my experience and how it compares to other brands here: Warning About Dealers And Their Pricing

Here is a video from my friend Mike that talks about BH. Mike is a veteran of the tractor industry and someone that I highly value the opinion of.

Welcome to TBN blue 😂 😂 😂 Yes they are believe it or not. John Deere and Kubota are both price gouging customers really bad right now but I would still recommend you go take a look at both of them. New Holland I could not tell you as I have no NH dealer anywhere near me. I will say that I...

Interesting, never thought about it like that :unsure:

Ruff what inspired the profile pic change? I liked the little dog you used to have.

Blue, I have a lot of experience running zero turns and I will tell you that their biggest weakness is hills. Yes they can be more stable on hills due to their lower center of gravity but they have no brakes or gear reduction like tractors do. So when they are pointed towards the downward part...

The Kioti CK10SE series sits comfortably in the middle between the Kubota Standard L and Grand L series and the Deere 3E and 3R series. It packs as much punch value wise as you are ever going to get without the inclusion of heavy electronics. The CK3510SE is roughly $6K-$12K cheaper then the...

It's really interesting to me to see the differences in the way houses are built in other parts of the country. There are no houses out here in my part of the country that look like that. Everything is different and has it's own style and personality. As far as what you think you will need, it...

For those that are interested, I did finally make it up to see the Kioti dealer today and I posted about it over here: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/warning-about-dealers-and-their-pricing.447938/post-6250319

So I finally made it up to see my Kioti dealer today to check out the CK10 series tractors and boy was I surprised at the quality and build of the tractors. I can honestly say that tractor drove every bit as good and maybe even better then the John Deere and Kubota tractors. I was honestly...

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/warning-about-dealers-and-their-pricing.447938/post-6247296

Yeah I'm familiar with this story. The Kubota dealer in my neck of the woods actually hires out an independent mechanic to do all the heavy lifting and surgical work while retaining parts changers for the regular day to day stuff. This same story is also true in other industries. I am in the...

So what you're saying is it's a mechanics find not a consumers find.

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Here is something for you guys to look at:

I would say you wouldn't want anything less then an L series. Reason being is you need adequate weight to maintain gravel driveways. I had a conversation with my local dealer last year and he told me that if I wanted to get real work done don't waste my time with anything less than an L series...

After my recent experience with Kubota I can tell him he will need that discount. Forget about the financing. That is the most backwards, pathetic thing I have ever heard someone say in regards to doing business with someone who's business it is to know that in the first place. I thought the...

What do you think he should of done?

Took one for a test drive this past Friday.

The word on the street right now is the most discount you will find is 10% off MSRP. You're probably right with the market conditions we're in now but market conditions change as nothing lasts forever. As I stated earlier, when the cheap mortgages go away this industry will find itself in a...

Where are you seeing this and what are the reasons for it?

This is all going to come to a screeching halt when the Fed cuts off the spigot on cheap mortgages.

Thanks for sharing.

It's going to be interesting to see what the inventory does this year on dealers lots with the prices the way they are. They have no choice at this point. Truckers are in such short supply that companies like Walmart have to throw every incentive they can to keep them from going to another company.

I personally think that all this price gouging is going to come back to bite them in their rear end before it's all over with.

Scotty & Torvy, Not to break into you guys conversation but I feel something needs to be pointed out here. I have been researching this industry for over two years now and what I am finding is this industry operates very much in the dark. There is no media or consumer journalist coverage of it...

Please tell me where this data can be found because I have looked and I can't seem to find anything concrete.

Over the course of this thread I have had some members reach out to me to provide referrals of other dealers I could try and talk to. I want to thank all those members who did that. However, in light of all the price increases by Kubota and the dealer trend towards price gouging the value that...

It is kind of an odd design now that you mention it 🧐 Yep :rolleyes:

Well to get back to tractors from grandpa's bacon and eggs I took a test drive of a L3902 HST today. This is a very different tractor from the L01 series. What immediately jumped out to me is how much quieter the transmission is from the L01's. It's almost a night and day difference. The HST...

Yeah I know Irby, they are not far from where I live.

Very true 😂

😂😂😂

That's interesting. I would never have anticipated that with the SSQA standard.

I am not taking this post the wrong way and I appreciate that you have started this thread. If people don't come on here and share their experiences how are we all supposed to know what's good and what's bad in the tractor market place 🤷‍♂️ I am not here to bash Daedong as I have never done...

I'm needing about a 40hp tractor in the medium frame size. If you have any suggestions I'm all ears.

It sounds like being able to edit out mistakes was where the need for word processing began which is where the personal computer became the solution to it.

I bet you were their star student Scotty :)

How old were you then Scotty?

Torvy this would fall under micro economics correct?

In the last 24 hours I have stumbled upon some threads of people who have reported that Kioti has failed to meet their basic warranty obligations. This is not the first time I have heard this as I was told by an ex dealer North of me a couple of years ago that he dropped them because of this...

Out of curiosity why TYM and Kubota? I assume they are your closest dealers?

Do you teach economics like Torvy?

And you probably won't.

What brand and model of flails do you have wirly?

Did that actually happen to you? Update: Apparently it did as I found the thread here: Kioti Warranty and Parts Support ? I just have to say after reading that thread that it disgusts me that we have members on this site that beat up fellow members when they are reaching out for help and...

Where do you think it shines the best?

Please explain why.

How many mowers do you have Hey Dude??? :oops:

I found this description of flail mowers on the internet a few days ago and I thought it was the best description I have ever seen denoting all the benefits of a flail mower: FLAIL MOWER The flail mower is the best of both worlds. They can handle heavy grasses while also providing a beautifully...

This reminds me of King Nebuchadnezzar. It's like your state has come under some curse of insanity and is going back to the stone ages.

So let me get this straight, they want everyone that has a house and a yard to get goats to keep the grass cut?

I take it you have had personal experience?

That's odd as I would think the opposite is true.

This is a joke right?

He was answering my question about interest rates. That's where he thinks the interest rates will top out. I would like to hear your opinion on this as well.

That's always the challenge when you're value shopping. Trying to find a product that has good quality for a good price is the goal but is often hard to achieve. It takes a lot of work and time and evaluation and observation and yet they can still sneak stuff in on you like what you were talking...

I assume the F3680 is a rear discharge?

According to some around here were just months away from it 😄

I found one for you right here :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

It's still around if you're willing to pay for it. The business world is now treating it as a value-add commodity.

Do you mind elaborating?

I heard this same thing recently. Where did you get this information if you don't mind me asking?

Done ✔️

You and coobie obviously share the opinion that gear reduction is not needed. It begs the question then why Kubota engineers thought it did.

According to some of you here if the can gets kicked down the road far enough I may be able to purchase equipment for pennies on the dollar 😅

I will definitely take a look but it will come down to estimating cost and considering substitution.

Traction can be one component of the problem due to the shifting weight but what can also happen is the tires can have traction and they start spinning forward and you return the bars to neutral but the wheels keep spinning forward. Gear reduction in this sense would help.

You once again planted the seed in my mind to take another look. Maybe used equipment would not be a bad way to go at this point. I buy all my cars used but then again it's apples and oranges when your talking about buying used equipment...

Have you ever run one on hills?

That's surprising those things have brakes. That's the first ZT I have ever heard of that has that.

The brakes. I will take a look into them. You got me curious.

Yeah I looked at them a while back but those things are serious money 🤑 As Username Taken would say, the people who buy those have that "goobermint" money.

Seriously?? The ZD1511's were one of the machines effected by the horrible motor that Kubota put out during that B3350 debacle. Someone told me recently that they bought a '21 model ZD1511 and they were having the same regen problems so I'm not sure if Kubota has even updated the engines in...

I was just thinking yesterday about you. Was wondering where you've been and why you haven't commented on this thread yet. Good to have you back. That too. However, I think a rear discharge deck would solve most of that. Why? Please explain. Why wouldn't you be able to get parts?

I'm thinking the reason you haven't had much of a problem is because that mower has a gear reduction. It's one of the only ZT's on the market that does have one. One of the problems I have personally encountered with them is when you are going down a hill or even pointed down a hill they can get...

.....Why?

They're great for flat properties and smooth terrain but not so much for anything outside of that.

Yesterday I compared pricing of diesel zero turns to 35-40hp tractors and some of the brands of tractors are considerably cheaper to buy then the zero turns.

My thoughts are right here: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/please-read-if-you-are-a-newbie-tractor-buyer.447526/

What kind of car dealership?

Yep that's a great point. What you're saying is they would go to the cell phone business model.

Low income, uneducated and suckers are how most people make their fortunes in business unfortunately.

100% This is especially true in the low income bracket.

I know a guy who owned a used car dealership and he self financed. He was really in the finance business not the car business.

You have said it correctly right here ^^^ That is the greatest threat to society.

Here's what I have to say to this climate change baloney:

You must be in my neck of the woods then.

Oh yes I remember those days.

Yep I saw that same story on my phone the other day. I can't ever remember a time when the automotive market was fetching these kind of prices. As I stated in a previous post, my 80 year old father said he's never seen such a thing before.

I'm in the real estate business and I can vouch for what you're saying. Comparative Market Analysis is the smoke and mirrors of this business. If you don't know what you're looking at realtors and appraisers can hoodwink you so fast you won't know what hit you. It happened to me a while back but...

This is also true with zero turn mowers. The type of hydrostatic drives that they use is what largely determines the life expectancy of the machine.

What's your opinion? You think they're going back to that?

Is that where you think they may end up?

Where do you think those will go or top out at? Same as '81,'82?

I pmd you.

What do you think is coming?

So I've heard. It really blows my mind to be honest. I asked my 80 year old father last night if he ever remembered paying MSRP for anything and he said no. What's happening right now is unprecedented. There was a group of guys on another chat site last night that thought I was nuts and living...

I encourage you to read this thread: Please Read If You Are A Newbie Tractor Buyer

I didn't want to say this publicly but since you are asking I will go ahead and put it out there. That dealer is beyond bad, he is a terrible person and a wolf in sheep's clothing. You couldn't pay me to do business with him and I will leave it at that.

Ok, thank you for your honesty.