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Can anyone explain to me what the logic is that people are actually trying to sell B3350's for the prices they are listed for on Tractor House? https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/list/manufacturer/kubota/model-group/b3350

I will add to that price difference between Kubota and Deere is quite huge and most people want bang for their buck. Deere dealers are also notorious for not giving compact tractor customers the time of day. The rest have a real estate problem.

Yeah I checked out the link you provided and was almost in disbelief when I discovered that their home office is about 50 miles from my house :oops:

Not saying you're wrong but please share your reference for this statement here.

Scotty you no doubt win the internet crown for this. It amazes me you still have this and in near mint condition after all these years. I have never seen anything like this for sale or elsewhere on the internet. Thanks for sharing again.

Amen to that.

I can answer that one: It was cheaper.

😆

And to get a slice of that market manufacturers have to have dealers in those urban areas to capture those customers. This is where these "value brands" struggle to compete with big Orange and big Green. Residential farms and hobby farms are where the vast majority of compacts are being sold.

As I have pointed out before you and many of us on here have become the sales people for the industry now. At this point there is virtually no need for tractor sales people anymore. After being here for two years I can say with assurance that many of you know vastly more about tractors then any...

Welcome to the tractor industry 😂

Can you provide reference for where you found this information?

How is that happening? Were they dealers carrying another brand and switched or did they add those brands to an already existing brand? Or are you saying the whole dealership went belly up?

I want to thank all of you for your enlightening responses to my thread. I definitely learned some new things about the progression of tractors. It boggles my mind how these technologies started out. What I once thought was the way it always was has turned out to not be the case.

I never knew the term "live hydraulics" even existed before this thread. That concept was never conceived until you guys explained it to me.

I thought a transmission driven PTO was as basic as it could get but this takes it to a whole another level. That design definitely left a lot of room for improvement.

How strange. I never knew such a design like that was in existence.

Can anybody explain to me how the PTO had anything to do with pulling a ground engaging implement?

Ironically this showed up in my YT news feed today so I thought I would share it since we are all talking about Deere.

Let me guess AG Pro?

Then what are all the numbers at the bottom of the page? https://www.deere.com/en/our-company/contact-us/

No my statement extends to John Deere themselves. John Deere's customer service has been some of the worst I have ever experienced. There is more integrity and goodwill shown with government employees then there has been with John Deere employees. If I could rank companies and institutions with...

Was that your closest dealer?

The problem is with both. Torvy's experience is echoed by almost everyone here including myself. Many of us started out wanting and looking at Deere only to find that we were ignored and shown they didn't want our business.

Are you being serious or facetious?

My theory is they cut corners somewhere on purpose so it would make the HST+ seem like a night and day difference instead of just some added gears and more ranges.

Hey Scotty, thanks for clarifying this and yes you are right, I was confusing TLB with the add-on loader and add-on backhoe implements as a TLB. Just for my own clarification, what are most TBN members referring to then when they use TLB here? To answer this honestly I said it because of my...

Hey Jeff, I want to share this article as I believe it perfectly conveys what you are trying to communicate to everyone on this thread. Please take a read: https://www.dtnpf.com/agriculture/web/ag/equipment/article/2013/12/17/what-horsepower-ratings-mean-to-work-4 "It's easy to see the new...

Scotty please explain what you mean here because Deere does make a medium size TLB in both the 3E and 3R tractors and the Deere HST's are probably the best in the business.

That's what I am thinking. The take it or leave it mentality tells me they have other plans up their sleeves. From a cost standpoint it would be Christmas come early if they could get rid of all the union employees and start over with non union help.

Deere's 3R's are in a class by themselves. They are bullet proof reliable and have the right feel and size BUT if you price them you will find they outprice 4 different classes of Kubota tractors. When I ran the numbers here in my market I found that the 3R was over $7500 more then the Kubota...

You mean 3035D?

My exact same experience with them.

I couldn't agree with you more. They are just reckless with the way they are conducting business. I have seen it in the way they overprice their CUTS to the way they mistreat their customers.

Yep this is why the Caroni has such a cheap up front price on the mower when you buy it new. Their business model mirrors that of the printer industry. The printers themselves are cheap but the ink/toner is where they get you.

The first video of it's kind. Tim from tractor time with Tim has made the very first factory tour of a flail mower factory and I am sharing this history in the making with all of you to see:

😂

California doesn't take too kindly to folks who are independent and pay their own way like you. They want dependents that will forever need them.

I'm glad you had such a good experience and I appreciate the detailed feedback.

This has been an eye opener for me today.

Mine wasn't either. So what was the point of them entering the tractor market if they were not going to leverage their large dealer network??

😆

That's what they think...

California is on a path to ruin.

SMH....They are running that state into the ground.

The tractor industry is doing something similar. Dealers going online now to make Messick's style videos which is killing their sales force. At this point between YouTube and TBN who needs a tractor sales person anymore?

Yeah and a trend that is not showing any signs of slowing down any time soon. I just saw on the news the other day where they said California was outlawing small petrol engines by 2025 and forcing all the outdoor power equipment to be electric. SMH

So the hospitals already knew they had the upper hand and calculated how it was all going to play out.

Mine for one.

They did it to my mother many years ago so I don't know why you are saying they can't.

So what happened after they started complaining?

You are the first person I have ever come across that favors and defends insurance companies. Did you work for one or something?

You can get access to it for $500

No inflation averages about 2% a year but this year it will be much higher. I can't exactly remember what the guy at Deere told me but it was somewhere in the 3,4,5 % range. They do it because they're greedy not because it is following the consumer price index. That's why I said Deere is reaping...

I'm not following. A large provider of what? Insurance or Jobs? Please elaborate.

Read the second sentence again.

Yep I made a similar statement here: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/another-confused-first-timer.442898/page-31#post-6123897

If they're not the problem then why can't we pay what they pay?

That's my philosophy. I don't see any other way to do it.

That's why I suggested going to a private payer system and getting rid of insurance companies. Then the consumer sets the prices and not the insurance companies and hospitals.

It creates competition which leads to lower prices.

Thanks for sharing this document.

What makes you say this?

Man I feel for you. That's financially unsustainable.

Is that the secret to getting good help and building good culture within a company?

That just blows my mind. I really had no idea people were paying premiums like that.

That's insane! Now I understand why some of you don't blink an eye at purchasing a new tractor. A couple of years of that and you could easily afford to purchase a new tractor.

That's terrible. I really had no idea.

Insurance is the problem. Get rid of insurance and go to private pay or open up the system and let more insurance companies come in and compete. In my state we only have virtually one insurance company, Blue Cross Blue Shield.

They can bring one here. I know my state would gladly take it.

But remember this, Deere is not going to lower their prices to the consumer, they will continue to increase the prices about 3% every year. So none of us are going to see any benefit from that, only Deere benefits from that.

The problem is not so much pay as it's protection. Anytime you protect bad apple employees it spoils the whole bunch.

Thanks for the heads up.

Never worked within the industry but have to interact with it to process payments for my business so I would imagine there is a good deal of IT related jobs within it that require skill. Would I be wrong?

I have said it before and I will say it again: I learn something new everyday on this forum. Never heard of this man until I saw your post. Thanks for sharing Diesel.

It happened with this company but it so far has turned out to be a happily ever after Cinderella story: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dan-price-gravity-payments-ceo-70000-employee-minimum-wage/

Yeah I was astonished that the UAW did not accept that offer.

Was their some kind of pre existing conditions that would warrant that kind of premium? (P.S I'm not trying to pry into your health records as it's none of my business)

Are you seriously paying $29K a year in premiums???

😮:eek:🤑😵 Seriously???

Never heard it put like that before...interesting take on it.

Perhaps they are overpaid, I'm not going to argue on that point but I can tell you it's not a 9-5 m-f job. It's their life. It's a massive amount of responsibility and a few bad moves could wreck the lives of many people. It looks simple from the outside looking in but I assure you it's not...

I would change the word never learn to never change. Most people don't like or want change.

I am sharing this video as it is relevant to this thread. However, Neil's statement, "Kubota is run by the engineers and not by the sales and marketing arm" deserves an explanation.

How far is the Kioti dealer from you? How important was that to your decision to purchase the tractor you have now? Agreed and that's the way it should be.

I am of the same mind but as you will hear many here say John Deere makes no effort to earn it. Almost everyone here that has experience with Deere and their dealers has a story about walking into a dealer and not being given the time of day. I personally find that a problem. Some of these well...

You make some solid points and I hear what you're saying but you also need to take into account it is a high price to pay to become a CEO of a major publicly traded company like Deere. It's many, many years of schooling, training, learning and grooming to get there and then after they get there...

That's a really nice piece of property you have there.

Thanks for sharing this as it opened up Pandora's box with Deere's skeletons. But I think it is worth noting after doing some research that the 5000 series Deere tractors, especially the E series has been very problematic. Those tractors have many threads reporting serious reliability issues.

😂

What I hear both of you saying is personal relationship plays a major role in your decision to buy from a dealer and your perception of their value.

So how far away would you have been willing to buy?

You're not in Kansas anymore Dorothy.

If you don't mind me asking Murph how far away was your Kioti dealer that you purchased your tractor from?

Great post. Clear, concise and to the point.

As a first time buyer would you have still purchased the Kioti if the closest dealer was over an hour away?

How do you figure?

So to be clear, did you give the sale to the local dealer because they really earned it or because of their location?

Yep your right. 36.6 to be exact. However, the website is stating something different: https://www.deere.com/en/tractors/compact-tractors/3-series-compact-tractors/3046r/ I will call Deere and find out which number is correct.

You bought based on meeting a need at the time and you let the rest worry about itself. I hear you.

That's not what JD or tractor data have the PTO hp listed at. Right now they're claiming 34 PTO hp.

😂

Scotty you completely read my mind this morning. All the tractor expertise has gone online. It's no longer available at the local dealership. All the guys that had it have since retired and what the industry is left with now is "know-nothing-order-takers". So here's a thought for you, if all the...

Jeff, thanks for weighing in on this. I was not sure as to what recommendations should be made about how the tractor should be equipped for clearing holly groves and blackberry bushes. I took a look at that Ratchet Rake and was amazed at the effectiveness of it. I learn something new everyday on...

That's an unexpected statement as the LS is the smallest of all the tractors you have listed on your profile. Can you explain how this is true?

Aside from JD having a unique size that no other manufacturer in this industry has I completely agree.

This statement is very true. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride or personal feelings for a person if you really care about obtaining knowledge.

Can you share with us what you're reasons were for choosing the Kioti?

I can only speak to mine. The OP stated in his opening post that he was considering purchasing a tractor that he really didn't need. My first thought was why would he do that, especially in a very volatile and uncertain time as this? I don't know if you are aware of the severity of things right...

You need to provide more information about what you plan to do with this tractor.

Does a person who is unwittingly about to walk out in front of a moving car asked to be saved?

You make great points and I would add to that list that it shows ambition.

True but it's not the HP people end up regretting, it's the size they're stuck with afterwards.

My thoughts exactly but then California does have a lot of orchards and vineyards 🤷‍♂️

Arrow, I think there is a difference of viewpoint here. You see some of the questioning and comments on this thread as people overstepping their boundaries where I see it as some of us are looking out for our fellow man.

Thanks for sharing such a detailed account of your experience Tractor Guy.

Ah ok, that reminds me of the backhoes you see on construction sites. Yeah it's a canopy with a roll cage. By the way Scotty, that's a terrific picture you uploaded. Some more internet gold as I call it. Thanks for taking the time to go out of your way to do this, I really appreciate it.

Congratulations Brambleberry! It looks like it is in terrific shape and I think it will give you many trouble free hours of service life. Thanks for posting these pictures. It's really satisfying to see the end of a thread as so many never completely resolve as this one did. Best Regards my friend.

Scotty can you send some links to these canopy's you are talking about?

Scotty, I have been following politics all my life and if there is anything I have learned from it all it's that man knows how to solve his own problems but he's just not willing to do it. Corruption and sin is what is the root cause of every problem we have down here. There is no advancement in...

And I would say those are the people that stand to profit from that type of thinking to.

I was going to say that the only thing you would be missing out on is a place to meet girls 😆

I was going to make a more subtle reference to that in my last post but then changed my mind 😂

The thing now is anyone can obtain that education for as little as a $30 a month internet connection. College in my opinion is becoming obsolete besides the highly technical occupations that require degrees and licensing such as the medical field, civil engineering, architecture, psychology etc.

I'm taking this to mean mowing grass, loader work, pulling wagons and trailers, grading driveways, tilling gardens etc. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm taking this to mean pulling a plow or dragging large trees out of the woods. If there are other things you would add to this category please let...

What I hear a lot of you saying is the dealer had a lot of influence on your decision to purchase your specific brand of tractor.

I just learned something new. I never knew this until you pointed it out. Thanks!

No I meant what I said. I think you're splitting hairs here. What I stated would be accepted as correct by the standards of the nomenclature used to describe what it is that I am talking about within the context of tractors and equipment.

Thanks for sharing your experience Ken.

Lou have you run up several thousands hours on a hydro? Please define what you mean by homeowner type jobs and light duty work. You mean CVT's?

Outside of the gear drive providing a few more ft lbs of torque I don't understand how it is better for "pto intensive work"?

Very true.

Exactly which doesn't make any sense. Well said.

This has always been the case Torvy. Back when my father used to work a job as a vendor for a cookie company in the 60's he told me that there were other vendors that required people to have a college degree to stock their product on grocery store shelves.

Interesting. Any chance you would have some pictures of this?

Yes it is confusing. It took me two years of study and research to unravel the ball of yarn all this is when you first get into it. What's so different about the way tractors are sold from every other type of equipment out there is depending on the options, you can purchase a bigger tractor with...

What is semi-mounted?

Parts support networks also influence tractor and equipment prices. The South Korean tractor brands don't have the same parts infrastructure in place that Deere and Kubota have.

Besides pulling a plow where else would a gear drive outperform a hst?

If anyone else has the courage to step forward to give me their opinion about this I would really be interested in hearing it.

My question to you is why would you want to purchase something that expensive and take on that much debt liability if you don't really need it?

What's been wrong with it?

New York is another state that never surprises me what they do. You almost can't even reference them as any example.

Not in my state. Alabama football has become a bigger industry here then just about anything else. It's the only thing that this state is world class at other then being stupid.

This is why I don't like the market. It's susceptible to manipulation like this.

Why don't you ask a dealer if you can demo one so you will know?

Ken why are you afraid to give your opinion and take a position on this?

It's a hypothetical question.

What if there was a dealer that sold on a farm and they let you put hours on a tractor to test it out?

Kenmac would you prefer to purchase a tractor from a dealer who sold on a farm versus one that sold in the city if they offered the ability to test it out bush hogging, plow the field, etc, before you buy it?

Then how about you share with me and others here your ingenious opinion about these tractor brands and dealers.

What brand of tractor does he sell?

The level of control over the air and fuel mixture and the atomization of fuel in the combustion chamber so that it produces a cleaner burn can only really be achieved by the electronics that we have on the engines now. Mechanical injection could only take us so far.

Depends on the kind of demo you get.

By doing research, listening to what former and current owners of those brands are saying and from my own personal experience with those brands and dealers. However, if you have a different opinion about the brands and dealers you think I am bad mouthing I welcome you to share it. You...

Thanks mo it makes sense now. So just checking my math here: If you have a tractor that produces 30 PTO hp then it makes 291 ft lbs of torque correct?

Savoy, glad to help. The Birba is made for your kind of tractor. However, and this is just my opinion, I think Befco or Vrisimo is the better choice because they have more knives. But with that being said, I have no experience running any of the three I have recommended but I have run a Peruzzo...

Ooh interesting...I have never had anyone break it down like this before. If you don't mind me asking how do you know this? Could you share the math that was used to reach this understanding?

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

I can answer this. I would strongly recommend staying away from that flail mower. To begin with, those flail mowers made by Kubota are crazy heavy and weigh a ton. They weigh more then what your little B26 can adequately handle. It could easily push your tractor around and cause a real safety...

Well as stated in my profile I currently own a late 60's Ford 3000. Before that we had a Long 360 which was a great tractor and now I am shopping for a new tractor. Think I have pretty much decided on what I want.

But that comes at the expense of efficiency correct?

But in reality PTO hp is just torque correct?

Good for you. That is the only way you can know why Deere is the better choice. This is what any smart and educated buyer would do.

I agree 100%

That thing is clean as a whistle on the inside.

Willy I think you are unofficially the best loader salesman in the world but I will offer an explanation as to why not everyone wants a loader as I am in that class of people. Loaders first of all are very expensive. I have never seen one for less then $5k and if you don't have a property that...

I am actually one of those "subset" of people. However, I am not looking at a BX.

That is a good point. Durability is not going to be the same due to the intended application.

This is one area I think they need to change especially on their 3R and 4R series tractors.

I agree which is why I suggest every tractor buyer go and demo the equipment they are interested in before purchasing it.

Hey Scotty was only replying to a statement that I originally made in a previous post to confirm if he understood what I was saying so need to get offended with him. Education is in fact a driving factor for many consumers to purchase new. If you doubt this statement look at how many threads are...

That's an interesting statement that I will think on for a while :unsure:

If this is possible then why is the PTO hp on all the tractors less then the engine hp?

I think you're right because finish mowers just can't produce enough lift to cut the grass as cleanly. However, I will say that Trimax makes some rotary cutters for tractors that will blow your mind.

Yes there are and I would argue the penalty to them is lost sales and even ruined businesses if they don't manage everything correctly.

That's a good question. Are the customers important assets at a company anymore?

Some do but it comes down to the same thing for every company and consumer who enters the market place and that's the value proposition.

Does anyone know why John Deere will not offer ground level fueling on their compact tractors?

Brambleberry, I think one of the biggest reasons you don't see people choosing them anymore is the price difference between a GST and Kubota's top of the line HST+ is only about a $1000. Another thing to consider is GST is the best technology in gear drive transmissions but would hardly compare...

Thanks for your detailed reply. That is what I have always been curious about, is the cut quality as good as a top notch zero turn like a Grasshopper, Exmark or Scag?

That is what mostly turned me off to Kubota. What a lot of people don't understand about the pricing differences between the Deere 3E series and the Kubota standard L series is the quality of the transmissions.

I feel this statement is true for any tractor buyer.

I don't see how they could be any different because that's the highest margin part of this whole industry.

That was another point I didn't even mention. Buying used equipment is nothing like buying used cars because you have no idea how that piece of equipment was used. There are infinite number of use types and variables that could play into the wear life of a piece of equipment that you just don't...

Exactly. It depends on the brand of tractor. Based on reports from members of this forum, it's not so rare for there to be defects in manufacturing with South Korean tractors. Yes but it's a major factor in the buying decision.

Yeah I completely agree. The seller is looking for a sucker. I would pass on it.

What was wrong with your Ford? Very surprised to hear this as Fords are some of the best tractors out there.

Scotty I can answer this. For starters most first time buyers don't even know what kind of tractor and equipment they need to tackle the tasks they have at hand. Look at how many thousands of threads have been created on this site over the years asking all the same questions. Heck go back to...

That's insane.

They should be crediting you about $1000 bucks then.

So I take it your are running turfs? Just to be clear, you are running turfs?

LMAO 😂

Ah yes, a good debate about things that are going way over my head. Maybe I will learn a thing or two from this. Data Pipe GIF - Data Pipe Thinking - Discover & Share GIFs

I can't think of a better match made in heaven then a diesel engine and a turbo charger.

What's your opinion of the cut quality?

And up to date would be an empty parking lot 🤣🤣

This is where I favor unions and don't favor unions. In my younger years when I was entering the work force I worked for several people prior to joining the family business that dealt very unfairly with me. I was fired from a couple of jobs with no warning or opportunity to address the issues...

Now that the Right-To-Repair Act has been signed into law you are probably right.

If they are not going to be straight with their advertising that's something that should not be ignored.