Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Cutting / Groving / Siping R-4 for snow

[buckeyefarmer]

Watcha gonna do with all of them "fishing worms"

........

 

[chim]

I don't get how guys think that grooving your tires is going to make a big difference. Winter tires are made of a softer rubber compound which conform to the road more efficiently. That's what makes a winter tire. Grooves in a harder rubber wont flex anywhere near as much as the micro grooves you see in winter tires. Little to no improvement and you just marked up your tires causing them to degrade faster. Think about it logically.

Using turf tires to maximize your surface area or putting chains on is the best thing you can do.

The grooved R4 tires on my L3200 have performed well in the several years since they've been done, but an experience today with the L4240 / grooved R4's was nothing short of amazing. I had made one pass down the driveway and turned around at the road to plow the other half coming back. Pushing snow, the tractor didn't quite make it all the way to the top of the hill.

It was only after clearing the snow as best I could that I realized the whole driveway was solid ice. The below pictures show the hill. There's an old tree stump off the side of the driveway in two pictures. The tractor made it that far before running out of traction. Wanting to experiment a bit, I tried plowing uphill a few more times but the tires kept breaking loose near the top. I made several trips just driving up and down the hill and it could easily make it up the hill with the blade raised. The hill is so icy I had to walk in the soft snow on the side to get the picture showing the side view.

 

[farm boy00]

I don't get how guys think that grooving your tires is going to make a big difference. Winter tires are made of a softer rubber compound which conform to the road more efficiently. That's what makes a winter tire. Grooves in a harder rubber wont flex anywhere near as much as the micro grooves you see in winter tires. Little to no improvement and you just marked up your tires causing them to degrade faster. Think about it logically.

Using turf tires to maximize your surface area or putting chains on is the best thing you can do.

How about you read through this thread and see that your "think about it logically" isnt quite right.
A good few members have had good luck with grooving their tires.

 

[kennyd]

How about you read through this thread and see that your "think about it logically" isnt quite right.
A good few members have had good luck with grooving their tires.

More that a few...
I've experienced fabulous results on two different tractors now.

 

[Buggs67]

How about you read through this thread and see that your "think about it logically" isnt quite right.
A good few members have had good luck with grooving their tires.

Sometime logic doesn't apply.

My tractor seems to have better traction in the snow/ice we currently have. And when I was working in the dirt mud before the snow it also seemed to slip less.

And these are not like cars, where we can have one set of rims/tires for winter and another set for winter. We have to work with what the tractor came with, at least until they wear out. Then I could consider turf tires.

 

[dnw64]

Sometime logic doesn't apply.

My tractor seems to have better traction in the snow/ice we currently have. And when I was working in the dirt mud before the snow it also seemed to slip less.

And these are not like cars, where we can have one set of rims/tires for winter and another set for winter. We have to work with what the tractor came with, at least until they wear out. Then I could consider turf tires.

Funny, because when the reasons for grooving were explained to me (early in the thread), it seemed entirely logical.

But more important than logic are the many success stories. If just a few, you could chalk up to placebo effect. It's not "just a few". Sure, I haven't seen any "scientific" tests that would stand up to peer-reviewed publishings, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't, if such tests were done.

 

[dragoneggs]

I don't get how guys think that grooving your tires is going to make a big difference. Winter tires are made of a softer rubber compound which conform to the road more efficiently. That's what makes a winter tire. Grooves in a harder rubber wont flex anywhere near as much as the micro grooves you see in winter tires. Little to no improvement and you just marked up your tires causing them to degrade faster. Think about it logically.

Using turf tires to maximize your surface area or putting chains on is the best thing you can do.

You have data to support your claim? Many folks have reported much better traction on snow after adding grooves. I don't have data but I would be willing to bet that the more grooves the better. And I have been thinking about it logically. Do turfs wear faster because they have more grooves?

 

[NEPA guy]

The only empirical evidence I can show is that my old man ran his tractor clearing snow, for 25 years up a steep road, 1/4 of a mile without grooves, without a problem. Any solid data I could link to here from tire manufacturers proving that that type of rubber is what makes a winter tire a winter tire. Not the pattern. I have also decided to use turf tires to plow up a significant grade, without issue for 3 years in both snow and ice. I never use chemicals.

I won't argue to say that pattern does not have any bearing whatsoever, but not enough to merit a marked difference in adherence. Snow binds to snow better than snow binds to rubber. When the tire spins it will break the contact. Kinda like when you run an machine with tires through mud, it fills up the grooves with mud, creates a smooth surface and the tire by its own virtue will spin, not create a situation where it will grab that much better.

I get it. I like to get my hands on things and make them better in any way I can. Save some money. Make it better, stronger, faster. Give myself the satisfaction that proven or otherwise, I can make a difference. If it makes you feel better go for it. Kinda like AMS oil.

 

[RjCorazza]

Grooves provide more biting edges in a tire and have little or nothing to do with tire composition. Sipes, on the other hand, do work better on tires that have a rubber composition that allows flexing. That’s my layman’s understanding anyway.
As far as performance improvement with grooved tractor tires, I can tell a substantial difference with my grooved R4’s on two tractors - most notably in wet snow.

 

[Garandman]

The only empirical evidence I can show is that my old man ran his tractor clearing snow, for 25 years up a steep road, 1/4 of a mile without grooves, without a problem. Any solid data I could link to here from tire manufacturers proving that that type of rubber is what makes a winter tire a winter tire. Not the pattern. I have also decided to use turf tires to plow up a significant grade, without issue for 3 years in both snow and ice. I never use chemicals.

I won't argue to say that pattern does not have any bearing whatsoever, but not enough to merit a marked difference in adherence. Snow binds to snow better than snow binds to rubber. When the tire spins it will break the contact. Kinda like when you run an machine with tires through mud, it fills up the grooves with mud, creates a smooth surface and the tire by its own virtue will spin, not create a situation where it will grab that much better.

I get it. I like to get my hands on things and make them better in any way I can. Save some money. Make it better, stronger, faster. Give myself the satisfaction that proven or otherwise, I can make a difference. If it makes you feel better go for it. Kinda like AMS oil.

Summary: you have not tried this yourself and thus dismiss the effort.

I have tried it, and have empirical proof the technique is an improvement: I couldn稚 push snow up the hill in my driveway before I grooved the tires. After grooving, I could. See where the snow is sticking?

Winter tires have special tread compounds, but that is not the entire story. They also have different tread geometry.