1/2 ton pickup opinions???

[RayH]

the thing i see most often that changes the amout a unit can tow is the weight of the unit. for instance the tow rating on a 3/4 ton is actually higher than that of a 1 ton in 99-2004, due to the added weight of duel rear wheels. gm has determined that a truck that weighs x amount can stop a load that ways y amount safely. long wheel base and duel rear wheels add stability buit not necessary better stopping distance.
the siminar i went to in 99 went into great detail about this and its been way to long since i was there, but the one thing they beat into our heads was that the ratings were based on what the truck could stop safely not pull.
my gm 2 cents

That doesnt hold water for me. It doesnt explain why manual transmission trucks almost always have a lower rating then an identical automatic or why an 07 Ranger with the automatic and 4.0 can tow as much as 5600 while an 07 F150 with the manual and 4.2 can tow as little as 2400. As far as I know, the F150 weighs more than the Ranger and has the same brake system as any other F150s.
Heres what I think, Marketing teams come up with the tow numbers, not engineers. Ford (and other companies) have a buyer in mind that they design and build their trucks for. They dont want a buyer that plans to tow 8000lbs buying the 6 cyl F150, they want that buyer to buy an F250 so they stick a tow rating on it to help the buyer in the right path. Heres why they dont want the wrong buyer in the truck. Joe comsumer buys his little 6cyl F150, he hooks up 8000lbs to it and tows it across the state. He gets back to find he has burn the clutch up, worn the brakes and the springs sag, he tells all his friends what a piece of crap Ford made, "12000 miles and Im replacing brakes and clutch, I'll never buy another Ford" Sound familiar?
If Joe wouldve bought the F250, he would be a happy camper and tell everyone what a great truck it is.
Its all about marketing and money. Find a list of tow ratings and try to make since of it. Its obvious that brakes, weight and wheelbase, suspension (all the things that make or break a tow vehicle) are of no concern. Tow rating is given to a vehicle based on how the manufacturer wants you to use it.

EDIT: Another point while Im thinking of it. Im into Jeeps. I have three of them, 2 Wranglers and a Cherokee. I can tell you that the brake systems of the Cherokee and the Wrangler are identical yet the Cherokee is rated to tow 5000 while the Wrangler is only 2000 and they weigh within a couple hundred pounds of each other.

 

[California]

FWIW - the Consumer Reports that arrived today has road tests and comparisons of (I think) all the half ton and 3/4 ton pickups.

CR isn't always right, but their writeups always have more information than I could easily find when researching something. For example there are real-world fuel mileage figures based on driving the identical route.

 

[jayhaitch]

Tow ratings are designed to allow the GCVWR load to stop safely, and also to not burn out the running gear. Not many people buy manuals any more, so more effort is put into sturdy auto trans design. Big manuals trannies need big clutches, and most of us like trucks, but don't want to drive a 1970 manual dump truck, stiff clutch, constant shifting in city driving.

It's just like tow ratings: the weakest link limits the total. A manual trans is usually the weakest link nowadays. Hence, the lower tow ratings. It has nothing to do with size of truck or strength of chassis in this case.

I remember when Dodge came out with their new 1994 series. Love it, still do. Would have bought one if they would have made a new Ramcharger. I remember they had an excellent drivetrain selection. Every engine was available with a manual or auto, many gear ratio options, but very variable tow ratings. Much less choice from the Big 3 nowadays with regards to manuals.

 

[RayH]

Tow ratings are designed to allow the GCVWR load to stop safely, and also to not burn out the running gear. Not many people buy manuals any more, so more effort is put into sturdy auto trans design. Big manuals trannies need big clutches, and most of us like trucks, but don't want to drive a 1970 manual dump truck, stiff clutch, constant shifting in city driving.

It's just like tow ratings: the weakest link limits the total. A manual trans is usually the weakest link nowadays. Hence, the lower tow ratings. It has nothing to do with size of truck or strength of chassis in this case.

I remember when Dodge came out with their new 1994 series. Love it, still do. Would have bought one if they would have made a new Ramcharger. I remember they had an excellent drivetrain selection. Every engine was available with a manual or auto, many gear ratio options, but very variable tow ratings. Much less choice from the Big 3 nowadays with regards to manuals.

I agree that the manual is the weak link and thats the reason for low tow ratings on manual transmission trucks. The low tow rating is on there because Ford doesnt want you to use that truck for heavy towing, not because its unsafe to use it but because they dont want you to wear it out. That was exatly the point I was making.
Let me throw this out there. Why do you think vans have a lower tow rating than pickups? They use the same braking systems, the same frame, engine and transmissions as comparable pickups.

 

[ALBALD1]

the max trailer weight isn't the same for different cab configurations. I read up on that when i was shopping. the running gear is what determines the total wait that can be pulled. the weight changes if you have more bed size or more cab size. a van w/ the same running gear is going to weigh more than a shortbed pickup. the trailer weight rating is based on what the total will be if you weighed the truck & the trailer. if you put less weight on the vehicle, the trailer can weigh a little more. thats assuming same running gear, brakes, etc. my neight had a f350 superduty w/ manual trans & burnt it up pulling cattle @ 12k. bought the same truck w/ auto & no prob. overdoing it isn't wearing it out. its tearing it up. like someone said though. pulling is the easy part. stopping is harder. i once pulled a 3/4 chevy van out of a hollow w/ a honda fourtrax 250, but he bout ran me over on any downhill incline.

 

[RayH]

a van w/ the same running gear is going to weigh more than a shortbed pickup. the trailer weight rating is based on what the total will be if you weighed the truck & the trailer. if you put less weight on the vehicle, the trailer can weigh a little more. thats assuming same running gear, brakes, etc. .

Im looking at an 07 tow rate chart right now. A superDuty F250 Van can tow 7300, A similarly equiped F250 SuperDuty pickup can tow 10100. Are you telling me that a Van weighs nearly a ton and a half (2800lbs) more than a pickup? Ive been studying this chart and we can go round and round about it. The numbers are not consistant with vehicles weight, brakes, length, or anything else that would influence how safely that vehicle can tow.

 

[jayhaitch]

Full sized vans are bought by tradesmen, contractors, etc. Low profit item. Pickups are bought by everyone, including King Ranch leather boudoir options, etc. High profit margin. Could there be a coincidence between how much they "allow" you to tow and profit per vehicle? A van would have more frontal area and therefore more drag. But how would this effect chassis strength/tow ratings? I, like RayH, am confused. Any industry insiders who can clarify?

 

[Toiyabe]

Ford E350 vans get a Dana 60 or 61 axle. That's the sort of axle you'd see in a 3/4 ton pickup. That means that the brakes and ring gear in a one ton van are more like those in a 3/4 ton pickup.

The van platforms don't get updated anywhere near as frequent as the pickup platforms. So the pickup frames keep getting stronger and stronger, while the van stays very constant over the years.

 

[ALBALD1]

I don't know what would make the difference so drastic for a van. When I was shopping, I was just comparing 1/2 ton pickups. I think safety & engineering probably plays a bigger part than marketing though. Someone said in another thread about this subject, the makers don't know if your gonna be towing on flat land or mountains. They don't know the speeds of towing or experience of the drivers. There's a lot of things involved there & they have to put a # on it. I'm also sure they don't want a bunch of trucks tore up before the warranty is out. There are a lot of people who hook up & go & don't change their driving habits at all. They're better off if they aren't maxed out on trailer weight. Personally, I don't do a whole lot of towing, so I drive slower & keep a farther distance between me & other vehicles. As far as safety, there's big difference what we could tow around these mountains in WV versus miles of straight flat roads somewhere.

 

[RayH]

I agree. There are so many variables involved that theres no way a manufacturer can even begin to tell anyone what is "safe" and whats not. Thats why a few posts ago I stated that I think the manufacturers tow ratings are next to worthless as far as safety is concerned. I think they are more of a guide to be used by the consumer to point them in the direction of a vehicle that is designed for their needs.