108 Year Old Hydraulic Cider Press Help

[r8f1k]

Ok, so I have minimal hydraulic experience, just enough to get myself in trouble and I know this is not a tractor issue. I have been restoring a 1910 hydraulic cider press built by the American Hydraulic Company. My 15 acre orchard is starting to provide me with the level of apples I would want to begin to make cider this year. I had the cylinder professionally rebuilt last year. I am finally getting the whole system together. I have a Vickers V10 hydraulic pump, nothing special, but works fine. I can get the cylinder to travel up, but I cannot get it to come down with the 4 way 3 position spool valve I had laying around for an old log splitter. I capped off the top work port and I am using the bottom one to get pressure. If I lift the handle up to try get fluid to come back to the tank, nothing happens. There is a HUGE piece of forged steel that makes up the bottom of the press (approx 250 lbs) and an additional 75 lbs of maple that both sit on top of the cylinder which, I think, should push the cylinder back down. Am I missing something? Can I even use the spool that I have? Is there a better way to do this without a spool? The original design had gate valves, I would do that again, if I knew how it went.....Any thoughts?

 

[/pine]

Ok, so I have minimal hydraulic experience, just enough to get myself in trouble and I know this is not a tractor issue. I have been restoring a 1910 hydraulic cider press built by the American Hydraulic Company. My 15 acre orchard is starting to provide me with the level of apples I would want to begin to make cider this year. I had the cylinder professionally rebuilt last year. I am finally getting the whole system together. I have a Vickers V10 hydraulic pump, nothing special, but works fine. I can get the cylinder to travel up, but I cannot get it to come down with the 4 way 3 position spool valve I had laying around for an old log splitter. I capped off the top work port and I am using the bottom one to get pressure. If I lift the handle up to try get fluid to come back to the tank, nothing happens. There is a HUGE piece of forged steel that makes up the bottom of the press (approx 250 lbs) and an additional 75 lbs of maple that both sit on top of the cylinder which, I think, should push the cylinder back down. Am I missing something? Can I even use the spool that I have? Is there a better way to do this without a spool? The original design had gate valves, I would do that again, if I knew how it went.....Any thoughts?

Are you 100% certain you have the valve plumbed correctly? Can you take and post a picture?... and add more info on the valve?

 

[r8f1k]

I am not near the press right now, but I can tell you that I am 99.9% sure that it is plumbed right. Is it possible that the spool is not letting the fluid return based on design?
Pretty sure this is the spool: 25 GPM Log Splitter Valve - 1/2" Work Ports - Single Spool W/ Auto Return Detent (PN: CV3-1) | RuggedMade

 

[oldnslo]

What is the bore diameter of the cylinder?

What sizes hose do you between the valve and cylinder?

What size hose is the tank line from the valve to the reservoir?

Reason for asking is that 314 lbs equals 100 PSI available on 2 diameter cylinder to push the oil back to tank. A larger cylinder is less pressure. Any seal friction or mechanical binding will also reduce the available pressure.

Is the pump off when lowering?

 

[r8f1k]

What is the bore diameter of the cylinder? - 10"

What sizes hose do you between the valve and cylinder? - 1/2"

What size hose is the tank line from the valve to the reservoir? - 1/2"

Reason for asking is that 314 lbs equals 100 PSI available on 2 diameter cylinder to push the oil back to tank. A larger cylinder is less pressure. Any seal friction or mechanical binding will also reduce the available pressure.

Is the pump off when lowering? - Yes

 

[oldnslo]

10 inch bore cylinder is 78.5 square inch area. 325 lbs of load divided by 78.5 = 4.1 PSI of load induced pressure. Seal friction & any mechanical binding would reduce this available pressure. I Suspect once moving it would lower slowly if there is no mechanical binding, the oil is not to thick and the reservoir is approx the same level as the cylinder or lower than the cylinder. For reference one foot or oil height is approx 1/2 PSI.

Is there a larger load on the cylinder from the apples when being used?

While holding the valve in the lower mode can you push the press open? As you can see by the numbers above 78.5 lbs = 1 PSI of hydraulic pressure to push the oil back to the reservoir.

What type of hydraulic pressure do you require to squeeze the apples while is use? I suspect this was originally a hand pump (like a hydraulic jack) to close this and then the gate valve was opened to allow it to open. Use caution since 100 PSI is 7850 lbs of force.

 

[Dave M7040]

I am picturing you trying to run a single acting hydraulic cylinder with a valve designed for a double acting cylinder.

Far better to get a single acting valve if indeed that is what you have.

Posting the picture requested will get you much more meaningful advice.

Using the double acting valve can be done but it is tricky as the oil needs a way back to the tank.

The way you have it plumbed, the oil has no return path.

Dave M7040

 

[100 td]

Does the cylinder drop when the pump is off, and the valve is reversed to lower, or will it lower with extra weight/leverage applied? (pump off reverse valve)

 

[r8f1k]

1) It will not go down when turned off.
2) It was always meant to run off of a hydraulic pump, the original pump was a colossus of tubes and pulleys that weighed about 100 lbs. The PO converted it to the Vickers pump in the 1980's. He bought the machine from the ORIGINAL owner in 1953. I bought it from him in 2016. It was in a 'barn' that was falling down in every direction. They hadn't made cider in about 15 years and the building showed.
3) I will post a picture of what I have now.
4) If I "tee" into the oil return line to the tank, from the upper port, might that do it?
5) I will crack the line and see what happens.
6) Does anyone have/know of a good single acting spool?

 

[ericm979]

I use a hydraulic shop press to make cider (10 gallons per batch, not 15 acre's of trees' worth).

I don't see how a single acting cylinder would work for this- you need down pressure to press the apples and you need up pressure to raise the press when you're done. Unless it's pressing up from the bottom but I've never seen an apple press that works like that.